---
section: Library
booktitle: "Zen: The Quantum Leap From Mind to No-Mind"
booktype: "Discourses"
bookcode: "QUANT"
dategiven: "15 June 1988 pm"
place: " in Gautam the Buddha Auditorium"
chapternum: "Chapter #5"
chaptertitle: "Can a circle be more circular?"
acode: "8806155"
shorttitle: "QUANT05"
audio: "Yes"
video: "Yes"
esttime: "56mins"
displaytitle: "Zen: The Quantum Leap From Mind to No-Mind: Chapter #5"
---

```style
.sutra {
  font-style: italic;
  white-space: pre-wrap !important;
}
```
<!--This file is automatically generated. Do not edit!-->
<p class="sutra">BELOVED OSHO,
BASO SAID TO HIS MASTER, NANGAKU, "THE WAY IS FORMLESS. HOW CAN WE SEE IT WELL?"
NANGAKU ANSWERED, "IT IS LIKE THE EYE OF THE LAW, POSSESSED BY THE GROUND OF MIND SEEING CLEARLY THE WAY, THE SAMADHI OF NO-FORM."
BASO SAID, "CAN IT PROGRESS OR DECAY?"
NANGAKU REPLIED, "IF IT IS SEEN AS PROGRESSING AND DECAYING, BECOMING FIRM AND DISPERSING, IT IS NOT SEEN."
ANOTHER MASTER, ENKEI, WAS ASKED BY A MONK, "IT IS SAID THAT IF WE SEE THE FORM OF THINGS, WE SEE THE MIND. IF WE TAKE A LANTERN AS FORM, WHAT IS THE MIND?"
ENKEI SAID, "YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THE MEANING OF THE ANCIENTS."
THE MONK ASKED, "WHAT IS THE MEANING OF THE ANCIENTS?"
ENKEI SAID, "THE LANTERN IS THE MIND."
IN ANOTHER INCIDENT, THE MASTER, HOGEN, POINTED TO SOME BAMBOOS, AND SAID TO A MONK, "DO YOU SEE THEM?"
"I SEE THEM," REPLIED THE MONK.
"DO THEY COME TO THE EYE, OR DOES THE EYE GO TO THEM?" ASKED HOGEN.
"I HAVE NO IDEA AT ALL," SAID THE MONK.
HOGEN GAVE UP AND WENT AWAY.</p>


Vimal, the first thing you have to understand is that by becoming a dangerous, ferocious animal you gave migraine to poor Maneesha. Remember it always, falling below humanity and then sitting behind a poor girl... It is fortunate that she is still alive, you have done everything to kill her.


As a gorilla you were dancing with her: I had left the place, just because I did not want to see the dance of a gorilla. And you see the result now? Be ashamed! Give your gorilla dress to Sardar Gurudayal Singh; it does not suit you. It will suit Sardar Gurudayal Singh anywhere. He can go into the city and freak out people. He does it anyway, but in a gorilla dress, and with his laughter... Sardar Gurudayal Singh!

(HIS LOUD LAUGHTER IS HEARD FROM THE BACK OF THE HALL.)


Take that gorilla dress from Vimal tomorrow. And as the dress reaches you, the migraine of Maneesha will disappear. It is not migraine, it is simply fear that -- who knows -- that gorilla may be sitting behind her again.
You have asked, Vimal:
<p class="sutra">BASO SAID TO HIS MASTER, NANGAKU,
"THE WAY IS FORMLESS. HOW CAN WE SEE IT WELL?"</p>


The question is very logical and rational. If the way is formless, obviously you cannot see it. To see anything it has to be objective, with a form. If it has no form, if it is infinite, how can you see it?


Baso in his own right later on proved to be one of the greatest masters, but even while he was a disciple of Nangaku, his master, his questions were immensely important. "THE WAY IS FORMLESS." That's what Buddha said, so there is every support for his question. And now he is asking Nangaku, "HOW CAN WE SEE IT WELL?"


But Nangaku was not in any way a smaller master. NANGAKU ANSWERED, "IT IS LIKE THE EYE OF THE LAW, POSSESSED BY THE GROUND OF MIND SEEING CLEARLY THE WAY, THE SAMADHI OF NO-FORM."


The answer seems to be absolutely absurd: what he is saying makes no sense. He is saying, "There are thousands of samadhis, graves of people who have seen it and declared it as formless. I am not the only one. Its formlessness does not prevent its being seen; you just need a different vision, a different eye." In Yoga they have called it 'the third eye', which can see the infinite.


IT IS LIKE THE EYE OF THE LAW. The word 'law' is a wrong translation of 'dharma'. It is always difficult changing great things from one language to another. The Sanskrit 'dharma', the Pali 'dhamma' can mean religion and can also mean the law, because religion is nothing but the law of existence, the very order of this universe.


NANGAKU ANSWERED, "IT IS LIKE THE EYE OF THE LAW, POSSESSED BY THE GROUND OF MIND. Underneath your mind there are roots of your being, which possess your ultimate vision, the third eye. ... SEEING CLEARLY THE WAY, THE SAMADHI OF NO-FORM."


This whole existence has no limitations, nowhere is the boundary. Now physicists are in difficulty... These small questions and these small anecdotes have become tremendously significant for modern physicists, because they also are questioning if the universe has limits; and then you have to accept something which you have not seen! Nobody has seen the boundary where the universe ends: it is purely a hypothesis.


Up to now science has been trying to believe that somewhere far away, millions and trillions of light-years away, there must be a boundary. They say that everything has a boundary: we may not be able to see it, but it has to be there. But that is only an assumption. With Albert Einstein's researches the assumption has fallen down. One of the greatest achievements of Albert Einstein was to make the universe free from boundaries. His work is as important as the work of all the mystics of the world.


The mystics have been trying to make your consciousness boundary-less. Albert Einstein tried to make this whole universe unbounded, unlimited, infinite, although there is no way to prove it. But nor can the contrary be proved either. In the absence of contrary proof it seems to be rational to accept, at least as a hypothesis, that existence has no boundary. It cannot have, because to make a boundary you will need another existence. Who will make the boundary? What will be beyond the boundary? And if there is still something beyond the boundary, it is still the universe. It can be seen very simply that boundaries don't belong to existence.


But mystics are not concerned with the objective world. Their concern is with the inner world, the inner universe of consciousness. Has it a form? And if there is no form, how can you see when somebody is self-realized? How can you see that you have seen yourself? Only form can be seen.


Nangaku changes the whole situation. He says, "It is not a question of your ordinary eyes. Of course they can only see the form, but deep in your very being is a capacity to know the formless".
But Baso was no ordinary disciple.


BASO SAID, "CAN IT PROGRESS OR DECAY? I accept your hypothesis, but I have a few questions." Baso says, "Can it progress, the no-form, the unlimited consciousness, can it progress or decay?"
He is putting his master to a fire test.
<p class="sutra">NANGAKU REPLIED, "IF IT IS SEEN AS PROGRESSING AND DECAYING, BECOMING FIRM AND DISPERSING, IT IS NOT SEEN."</p>


To ask whether perfection can be more perfect is absurd. Perfection is perfection: it cannot be more, it cannot be less. Take a small example: can a circle be more circular, or less circular? A circle is a circle; it can be neither more circular, nor less circular.


"Your very question shows," Nangaku said to Baso, "that you have not seen it. Your third eye is still fast asleep. Your mind is young, your intelligence is great, but your inner eye has not yet opened; it is a bud, it has not become a rose."
<p class="sutra">ANOTHER MASTER, ENKEI, WAS ASKED BY A MONK, "IT IS SAID THAT IF WE SEE THE FORM OF THINGS, WE SEE THE MIND. IF WE TAKE A LANTERN AS FORM, WHAT IS THE MIND?"
ENKEI SAID, "YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THE MEANING OF THE ANCIENTS."
THE MONK ASKED, "WHAT IS THE MEANING OF THE ANCIENTS?"
ENKEI SAID, "THE LANTERN IS THE MIND."</p>


This is something to be understood. When you bring something before a mirror, it reflects it so perfectly that you can say that the mirror has become it. If the mind can see... it is a mirror. Your eyes are mirrors and nothing else. They reflect. And in reflecting they become things, whatever they reflect.


Looking into a person's eyes, you can discover his whole personality, his whole psychology, his whole mind and the mask. The eyes reflect not only the outside world, they also reflect your inner world: how deep you are, whether you are just a surface, a thin layer of water that reflects, or an ocean.


When Baso became the master himself, succeeding his own master Nangaku, before initiating any disciple he used to look into their eyes. He would bring the disciple closer and look into his eyes. And Baso looking into your eyes is almost as if you are in the hands of a lion. Just by his look... the penetration of his vision was as sharp as a razor blade. He had made a few people enlightened just by looking into their eyes. Their minds disappear: they cannot confront the eyes of the master, Baso. Baso is a very rare master.
<p class="sutra">THE MONK ASKED, "WHAT IS THE MEANING OF THE ANCIENTS?"
ENKEI SAID, "THE LANTERN IS THE MIND."</p>


When you are seeing the lantern, if you are not wavering within, in a very miraculous way, the reflection and the reflected become one, the observed and the observer become one, the loved and the lover become one.


In such small statements so much is hidden that on each statement a great philosophy can be based.
<p class="sutra">IN ANOTHER INCIDENT, THE MASTER, HOGEN, POINTED TO SOME BAMBOOS, AND SAID TO A MONK, "DO YOU SEE THEM?"</p>


"I SEE THEM," REPLIED THE MONK, not understanding that when a master asks you, "Do you see it?" he does not mean your ordinary eyes. A master's finger is always pointing to the inner, not to the outer. But the poor monk thought that the master is asking whether he can see the bamboos.
<p class="sutra">"YES, I SEE THEM," REPLIED THE MONK.
"DO THEY COME TO THE EYE, OR DOES THE EYE GO TO THEM?"</p>


How do you manage to see? Somebody has to go: either your eyes go to the bamboos, or the bamboos come to your eyes. Which way does it happen?


"I HAVE NO IDEA AT ALL," SAID THE MONK, feeling utterly defeated, not knowing what to say, because the fact is, no one goes, no one comes. The eyes are in their place and the bamboos are in their place. There is no going and there is no coming. Do you think when the full moon is reflected in the silent lake, the lake goes to the moon, or the moon comes to the lake? The moon remains in its place, the lake remains in its place, but the lake's silence, its mirrorlike surface reflects.


The poor monk could not say that: "Nobody goes, nobody comes, everything is in its own place, there is no coming, there is no going."
Because he could not answer, HOGEN GAVE UP AND WENT AWAY.


Hogen was a very strict master, not as compassionate as Baso or Gautam Buddha. He had the same experience, but he was very stern with his disciples, always wanting them to answer rightly. You could not deceive Hogen, nor could you ask for any compassion from him.


He used to say, "All compassion is dangerous," because what is the inner implication of compassion? It means allowing ignorance. He would not allow any ignorance: he would chop your head if it was needed, but compassion was not his method.


Rather than explaining to the disciple, he simply left and went away, without saying a word. This is his way of saying, "You are not worthy of me, you are not worthy of Zen. You cannot answer a simple thing, that in a reflection nothing goes, nothing comes, everything remains in its place." And in existence the case is the same: no going, no coming -- just be.


You can feel here, nothing is going, nothing is coming, a tremendous silence. The bamboos are not even making their commentary.
<p class="question">Poor Maneesha is not here, but her question is. She has asked,
BELOVED OSHO,
THANK YOU -- THANK EXISTENCE -- THANK YOU -- THAT YOU DON'T GIVE UP AS EASILY AS HOGEN.</p>


But Maneesha, where are you? The master is here and the disciple has given up! And this whole mess is being created by Vimal who is sitting in front of me.


Although you are not here, your question is significant for everyone. I am not Hogen. I will haunt you even in your graves! I will see you, however far you escape. I am haunting already all over the world and I am still alive. Once I am dead, then this world cannot prevent me; no law, no parliament, no country can make barriers for me; then I will be all over the place, tickling people to wake up. Even now I am not doing anything nasty to anybody, just tickling.


And I want you to remember that there are always a few stupid people, who come here out of curiosity. If you find any stupid person around you, not doing the gibberish, tickle! Do it from all sides; it is a religious duty. Don't leave the poor fellow alone. He should not go home the same as he came here. He should go laughing, forgetting all his misery and business. So while you are doing your gibberish, just take care that nobody is sitting silent. When you are silent, then take care that nobody is moving.


This is not an ordinary assembly, a crowd, this is a place where everybody has to become enlightened, in spite of himself!
I am a different kind of man, Maneesha.


Before you start your gibberish... from today I will not move my hands, I will watch you. And if I see somebody sitting silently, I am going to point. Then whoever he is, just tickle him. I have tickled you enough. Now it is your dharma!
Before our meditation begins I have to prepare the ground for you.


Swami Deva Coconut has a terrible pain in his back. When it becomes unbearable, he reluctantly goes to Ruby Hall clinic to visit Doctor Ekdam Kwality, the specialist, to have him diagnose his problem.


Doctor Ekdam Kwality examines Coconut carefully, takes an X-ray and asks him to come back the next day.


When Coconut returns, Ekdam Kwality says, "Well, I have studied the X-ray carefully, and your problem can be cured by an operation, followed by two weeks in the hospital, and then six months lying on your back -- at an approximate cost of twenty-five thousand rupees!"
"Jesus Christ," cries Coconut, "I can't afford all that!"


"Okay," says Ekdam Kwality. "Then for twenty-five rupees I can retouch the X-ray!"


After ten years of marriage, Boris and Betty Bunkovitz get divorced. Betty wins custody of their young son, Bert, and three hundred dollars a month in child support from Boris.


On the first of every month, Betty sends Bert to Boris to pick up the money. And every month the check is waiting.


On his eighteenth birthday, Bert goes once again to Boris. But this time, as Boris hands Bert the check, Boris says, "Bert, when you give this check to your mother, tell her it is the last check I am going to send her... and watch the expression on her face!"
Returning home, Bert says to Betty,


"Mum, Boris told me to watch the expression on your face when I tell you that this is your last check."


"Is that so?" says Betty. "Then, I want you to go straight back over there and watch the expression on Boris' face, when you tell him that he is not your father!"


Sardar Gurudayal Singh from Poona decides to go to Singapore for some shopping. He goes into a shop, dressed in his best flowing robes, curly shoes and turban, and asks, "What is the price of that video machine in the window?"
The salesman answers, "Sorry, sir, we don't sell to Indians."


To Sardar Gurudayal Singh this is very shocking. He goes back to his hotel and dresses as an Englishman in a pin-striped suit, with all his hair pushed up into a bowler hat. Back at the shop he asks, "My good man, what is the price of that video in the window?"
To his dismay the seller replies, "Sorry, sir, we don't sell to Indians!"


So this time Sardar Gurudayal Singh dresses as an American. He lets all his hair down, puts on Bermuda shorts, T-shirt and sunglasses, and goes back into the shop. "Hey, man!" he says. "How much for that far-out video machine?" But he gets the same reply. In exasperation Sardar Gurudayal Singh cries, "How do you know that I am an Indian?"


"That is easy," replies the seller. "The article in the window that you desire is not a video, it is a washing machine!"

Rupesh, give the first beat and everybody goes into gibberish.

(Drumbeat)
(Gibberish)

(OSHO WATCHES VERY CAREFULLY, LOOKING SLOWLY FROM FAR LEFT TO FAR RIGHT, HIS FINGER READY TO POINT TO ANYBODY WHO IS NOT DOING THE GIBBERISH PROPERLY!)


Rupesh...

(Drumbeat)

Be silent,
the way the bamboos are silent.
Just be,
close your eyes and be within.
No movement,
either of the mind or of the body...
Just be!
Now and here,
a pure isness.

Deeper and deeper...
Don't spare anything.
You have nothing to lose
by going deeper into yourself,
but everything to gain.

At the very center of your being
is the door of the kingdom of God.
You don't even have to open it;
it is open, it is waiting.

Come in. You are always welcome,
come in!

Rupesh, give the beat...
(Drumbeat)

Everybody falls dead.
Let your body breathe;
relax totally
so that you can move even deeper
into your being.
Have the taste of this tremendous silence,
feel the beatitude of this moment.
This is what I have called the quantum leap,
from mind to no-mind.

Rupesh, call the dead back to life, give the drum a good beat...

(Drumbeat)

One more...

(Drumbeat)

Come back, fresh and alive,
coming from the innermost sources
of your life
and consciousness.

Fresh and fragrant,
fearless and free,
just pure individuals
as existence always wanted you to be.

Okay, Vimal?
Yes, Osho.
Can we celebrate?
YES!
			

> [!info]
> Copyright 1964-1990 Osho (Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh)
>