---
section: Library
booktitle: "I Say Unto You, Vol 2"
booktype: "Discourses"
bookcode: "ISAY2"
dategiven: "01 November 1977 am"
place: " in Buddha Hall"
chapternum: "Chapter #2"
chaptertitle: "Go to the Very End"
acode: "7711010"
shorttitle: "ISAY202"
audio: "Yes"
video: "No"
esttime: "109mins"
displaytitle: "I Say Unto You, Vol 2: Chapter #2"
---

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<p class="question">WELL, I WAS BROUGHT UP AS A CATHOLIC, SO HOW COME JESUS IS A STRANGER TO ME?</p>


Jesus is always a stranger. It does not matter whether you were brought up as a Catholic or a Protestant or a Hindu or a Mohammedan. The very being of Jesus is that of a stranger, because he is an outsider. He lives on a different plane, he lives in a different dimension: he lives in God, you live in the world. He talks a different language; he talks about things you have not even dreamt about. You cannot trust him. You cannot even understand him; he is incomprehensible.


You may have been brought up as a Catholic; that means you have been taught from your childhood things about Jesus. Those are simply words; you have not been introduced to Jesus, because that introduction is possible only through meditation -- not through any kind of teaching, not through the Catholic catechism. It is all rubbish. In fact, rather than helping you to become acquainted with Jesus it becomes a barrier; you become knowledgeable. You know many things about Jesus without knowing Jesus. The more you know about him, the less you think that you need to know him. You become satisfied by and by; you start feeling that you already know him without knowing him at all That's what Christian teachings do And the more you have been taught, the more you become familiar, the more it breeds contempt.


So sometimes it happens that one who has not been brought up as a Christian may have fresher eyes to see Jesus, because his mind will be uncluttered. He will not know anything, he will look through innocence. He will not have any conditionings, he will look empty. He will approach Jesus without any prejudice for or against. And you can know Jesus only when you go nude, naked -- naked of all beliefs, naked of all prejudices, when you approach him without any preoccupation, when your mind is utterly silent.


So in fact the Catholic upbringing has done just the Opposite.


All religions are doing that, it is nothing special to the Catholic Church. Hindus destroy the possibility of knowing Krishna, Buddhists destroy the possibility of knowing Buddha -- because knowledge becomes more important than knowing, and knowledge is second-hand. Only knowing can help. And remember, let me repeat it again: Jesus is a stranger. He may be standing by your side but he is not there, he is somewhere else. You may be standing in front of Jesus but you are not there, you are somewhere else. You and Jesus never meet, because the planes are so different. You never criss-cross -- you cannot! Unless you become something like Jesus, there is no possibility. And to become like Jesus needs great meditation, needs great intelligence -- not a Catholic upbringing, not a Sunday religion, not foolish dogmas and creeds. Great intelligence, sensitivity, awareness...


People are fast asleep. Somebody is asleep as a Christian, and somebody is asleep as a Hindu. That doesn't matter -- sleep is sleep. A Christian, a Hindu, a Mohammedan -- if all these three get too drunk, will there be any distinction, differentiation between their drunkenness The Hindu will behave as foolishly as the Mohammedan; and the Mohammedan will behave as stupidly as the Christian. Once they are drunk, they are drunk. And people are asleep. It makes no difference what kind of theology you have used as a pillow for your sleep. Whether the pillow is white or green or blue or red does not matter. Once you fall asleep, you fall asleep; the pillow becomes immaterial. Whether you are sleeping on the Bible, on the Gita, on the Koran does not make any difference; you are using a pillow. Somebody is using the Bible as the pillow, somebody else is using the Koran as the pillow. And you are snoring over your scriptures. And Jesus and Mohammed and Buddha and Krishna remain strangers.


They do not belong to this world, that's why Hindus call them avatars. Avatar means one who has come from beyond descended from the beyond, like a ray of light descends into darkness. It comes from the transcendental world, from the world of turiya -- the fourth.


Jesus LOOKS like you, but he is not like you. Don't be deceived by the appearance. He is here on the earth, and not of it. He moves in the same world, the same market-place, the same people, rubs shoulders with you, holds your hand, looks into your eyes, but he does not belong to this world. He belongs to the other shore. He has risen, he has risen in God.


You can also rise, and only by rising will you be able to understand him; befreind him, otherwise he will remain an outsider.


Jesus is a lotus. You are still the mud. There cannot be any dialogue between the lotus and the mud -- although the lotus is born out of the mud, although the mud is carrying many more lotuses than have become manifest. Many unmanifest lotuses are there in the mud, but the mud and the lotus are so different -- strangers to each other. That is the situation. If you want to understand the lotus you will have to become a lotus. Only a lotus can have a dialogue with the lotus.


Never become a Christian. If you want to become something, become a Christ. Never become a Buddhist. If you want to become something, become a Buddha. Otherwise you will remain unaware of the reality of Jesus.


And because people feel uneasy -- uneasy because they cannot comprehend Jesus -- they create theories. Rather than transforming themselves, they load Jesus with theories, theories which can help them make him comprehensible. No theory can make him comprehensible. All theology is false.


But there are only two ways: either you wrap theories around Jesus which you can understand... In that way you feel that you have understood Jesus, but you have understood only the theories that you have wrapped around him. He remains there, absolutely far away, distant. He is not even touched by your theories. You can weave and spin beautiful philosophies around him. That philosophy you will be able to understand -- it is woven by you -- it is your creation, it is your invention rather. But Jesus, who is just standing there hidden behind your philosophies, is still an outsider. In fact your philosophies, your theories have made him more of an outsider than he was. With those theories, there has come a China Wall between you and him.


If you are a Christian you will never understand Jesus. Your very Christianity will be an obstruction, a hindrance. How can you understand Jesus when you are a Christian? Impossible! What does it mean to be a Christian? It means that you have certain ideas about Christ. You are clinging to certain theories: those theories become more important than Christ himself! Naturally, because you can understand those theories and you cannot understand Christ. So those theories become more and more important. You can discard Jesus, but you cannot discard your theories. That's why there are so many Christianities -- the Christianity of the Catholic, and the Christianity of the Protestant, and the Christianity of many many other sects. They all go on fighting, they are always at each other's necks, and they are all followers of Jesus! So where is the conflict?


The conflict is not between their Jesuses, because Jesus is one. The conflict is between their theories, and they cling to the theory. They can discard Jesus very easily -- Jesus is discarded, but they cannot discard their theory. Their theory is more important: it is their invention. Jesus has become secondary.


No, you cannot understand Christ if you are a Christian or a Catholic. You can understand Christ only if you are nobody. I am not saying that you can understand Christ if you are a Hindu. When you are nobody, when you drop all the curtains and you start moving in that reality called Christ without any preoccupied mind -- empty, clean, clear, no smoke around you, just a clarity and the freshness that clarity brings, and the vitality that clarity brings -- and you start approaching Jesus, with no idea of who he is, then there will be a meeting. Only if you are a nobody can you meet with Christ or Buddha or Krishna. And these are different names for the same state of consciousness. It is the fourth state of consciousness. Theories belong to the third state of consciousness; and Jesus, Buddha, belong to the fourth state of consciousness. You will have to drop many things before you can feel Jesus.
<p class="question">INDIA IS SUCH A SACRED COUNTRY: THE HEART OF SPIRITUALISM. I DON'T UNDERSTAND ALL THE CRUDE REMARKS THAT THEY WRITE IN MAGAZINES ABOUT YOU. WHY IS INDIA SO IGNORANT IN RECOGNISING YOU?</p>


If they recognise me then I will not be of much worth. Because they don't recognise me, that's why I have something important to deliver to you. The recognition is not possible; it has never been possible. Christ was not recognised by the Jews, Buddha was not recognised by the Hindus -- how can they recognise me?


Recognition comes from the past, and I am herenow. Recognition means that I should behave in a pattern that they recognise. If I walk naked, then Digamber Jains will recognise me, because they have the idea that an enlightened person walks naked. They cannot recognise me with clothes on: those clothes are a barrier. Buddhists will recognise me only if I look like Buddha. And I don't look like Buddha, and I am not sorry that I don't look like Buddha. I am happy that I look only like me and I don't look like anybody else.


If you look like somebody else you are a carbon copy. Carbon copies can be recognised, because they tally with some original. I cannot be recognised because I myself am an original copy; it does not tally with anybody. The Christian will come and he will start thinking in terms of Christ. He will start looking for Christ in me, and he will not find. That is obvious. And the Buddhist starts looking for the Buddha, and he cannot find. Because I am ME -- and the recognition of me, if you are searching for it in some past pattern, structure. is impossible. You can recognise me only as me. And to see me AS me, you will need to become unprejudiced.


To be a Hindu is to be prejudiced. To be an Indian is to be prejudiced.
So you ask: INDIA IS SUCH A SACRED COUNTRY...


First, never be befooled by such slogans. No country is sacred, no country has ever been sacred. It is only rarely that one individual in millions becomes sacred -- countries are not sacred. Just because Buddha was in India, has India become sacred? Does that mean because Albert Einstein was born in Germany, so Germany has become mathematical? Does that mean if some country has produced a great painter, the country has become artistic? That does not mean anything. No country can be artistic because it has given birth to a Picasso, and no country can be a musical country because a Wagner is born there or a Mozart. No country can be sacred because a Buddha or a Mahavir is born there.


Jesus was not born in India. Mohammed was not born in India. Zarathustra was not born in India. Lao Tzu was not born in India. Sacred people have been coming to the world in different places. Places have nothing to do with it -- places are just places. Buddha is born, but only one in a million. And what about the million fools? And if you judge by number, then every country is a foolish country, because it produces millions of fools and rarely a Buddha!


No country is sacred. No geography is sacred. No history is sacred. That quality of sacredness happens only to individuals, because a c.*ountry has no soul to become holy. A country has no individuality, only individuals have souls. And meditation happens in a soul, not in a country. And meditation happens in an individuality, not in a collectivity, not in a society. Remember it. Although every country tries to prove itself the best in some way or other, it is part of the game of ego. Every country thinKs I am incomparable. You can go to any country, and every country thinks deep inside that it is higher than others, holier than others, more moral than others, this and that.


This is part of our egoistic mind which is being projected in the name of the country -- sometimes in the name of religion. Every religion thinks This is the highest religion there is: my religion. My religion has to be the highest because it is my religion. And I am the greatest person in the world -- how can it be otherwise?


I have heard about a professor of philosophy who was head of the department of philosophy in the University of Paris. One day he declared 'I am the greatest man in the world.'


His disciples, his students were a little puzzled, because he was a poor professor. First, he was a professor, and then a professor of philosophy -- the poorest. They could not believe it, but they had always been thinking that he was a little eccentric, otherwise why should one go and study philosophy? He v. as a little crazy, but that day they thought he had gone completely out of his mind. What was he saying... that he was the greatest man in the world?


One student, just jokingly, stood up and said 'Sir, can you prove it? We need proof, and we can expect proof from a man like you -- a logician, a professor. Have you got any proof for your statement?'


And the professor said 'Yes, I have brought it and he had brought a map of the world.' He fixed the map of the world on the blackboard. They could not understand what he was going to do with the map of the world. And then by and by they came to understand what he was going to do.


First he said I will ask one question: 'Which is the greatest country in the world?'


They were all French, so naturally they said 'France.'


So he said 'So now, the whole world can be dropped; we can concentrate on France. If I can prove that I am the greatest Frenchman, then I will be proving that I am the greatest man in the world.'


Still they were not certain what he was going to do.


Then he said 'Which is the greatest city in France?' Naturally, it is Paris, and they were all Parisians. Now they started suspecting that he had something in it.


And he said 'Paris! And I am the greatest man in Paris. If I can prove this, then my first statement will be proved.' And then he said 'Which is the greatest place in the city of Paris?'


Naturally, it is the university -- the seat of learning, the seat of wisdom, knowledge. Now to everybody it was clear that they were trapped.


And then he said 'Which is the greatest department and the greatest subject in the university? It is philosophy, and they were all students of philosophy. So naturally it is philosophy.'


And then he said 'Who is the head of the department of philosophy?... I am the greatest man in the world.'


That's how we go on vicariously, indirectly proving that we are the greatest. So our country is the most sacred country, our country is the most brave country, our country is the most intelligent country, our country is the most aesthetic country, and all kinds of things are being claimed. And everybody else is a barbarian, uncivilised. Everybody else is the link between monkey and man. We are men and everybody else is a link.


It is not only Adolf Hitler's logic, it is the logic of everybody. And unless this logic is thrown away to the dogs, Adolf Hitlers will go on coming. They use this logic. They say Our race is the Nordic race, the Aryans... the purest blood. And these are all nonsense statements. What do you mean by pure blood? Everybody's blood is pure -- unless you mix something in it; everybody's blood is pure. What do you mean by pure blood? And what do you mean by pure race? All races have been mixing, and man has been growing by mixing each with the other. And the crossbreed is the stronger breed, because it has more complexity. And growth is from the simple to the complex.


What do you mean by calling a race 'pure'? But these are just egoistic ideas. It appeals, it appeals to people. It gives them a great nourishment; it becomes food for their egos. No country is sacred. Yes, there have been only few and far in-between individuals: a Buddha, a Christ, a Zarathustra, a Mohammed -- they can be counted on one's fingers. These are sacred people. But they have been coming to every part and place of the world, they have been coming to every poisonous.


Never be trapped by such slogans. These slogans are dangerous, poisonous.
You say: INDIA IS SUCH A SACRED COUNTRY...
It is not, because no country is.
And you say: THE HEART OF SPIRITUALISM.


All nonsense! You cannot find more materialistic a country in the world than India. But you will have to look with open eyes. You will be surprised how this idea that India is the heart of spiritualism is not allowing you to see the reality.


Just another sannyasin has written Osho, I am freaking out that the move to Gujarat is postponed. Why is she freaking out? -- because, she says In Poona it is so difficult to walk on the streets. People look at you with such lustful eyes. One feels embarrassed. They come on bikes and motorbikes and hit you. If they can touch the woman's body, they will not lose that opportunity. They are crude and ugly. And I can understand the sannyasin's letter to me.


And you call these people the heart of spiritualism? They are the most sexually-obsessed people in the world. Of course, they are against sex, but that does not make them non-sexual, that makes them sex-obsessed. Their WHOLE MIND IS sex-obsessed! They are continuously thinking of sex... and they are against it. Because they are against it, they cannot fulfil it; and because they cannot fulfil it, it goes on accumulating and it drives them crazy and perverted. Now, THIS is ugly.


If you love a woman, to hold her hand has a beauty, to caress her body has a beauty. But a woman just walking on the road and you hit her...? It is perversion! It is... Love has gone into a very poisoned and ill state of affairs. It is pathological. It is uncivilised, uncultured. But this goes on happening. And these people are against materialism.


But don't just listen to their words, watch their life and you will find them more materialistic than anybody else. Indians are so obsessed with money: money seems to be their god. No other country worships money; in India it is worshipped. They have a special day in the year when they worship notes and rupees -- that day is coming closer -- Diwali. No country in the world has ever worshipped rupees and money, yet they worship. And this is not just symbolic, this is very indicative. They cling to money like anything. It is very difficult for them to be non-greedy, to leave a single paise is impossible. And that's why if somebody renounces a little bit of money, he is thought to be a great man. That too is materialism.


Why? If somebody has renounced money, what is the point in it? Why should he be praised? But he is praised like anything, the whole country will talk about him! He will be thought to be a great man -- he has renounced money! Then money must be the greatest value. One becomes great if one renounces money. If people were really spiritual, renouncing money would be that somebody has renounced his mistake, that's all. There is nothing great in it. Somebody has found that money is valueless, so he has renounced it. But there is nothing to be praised in it; he has corrected his error. He was thinking that two and two are five, now he has come to understand that two and two are four. You don't go declaring that he has become a Buddha because now he knows two and two are four. Before, he was stupid; now he is normal.


But in India, it is worshipped if you renounce money, because the people know how much they are clinging to money. And you call India the heart of spiritualism?


This is what Indians have been teaching the whole world. Don't be deceived -- this is just advertising. They go on claiming all over the world that they are the heart, that they have the greatest secrets of spirituality. And they go on exploiting in the name of spirituality. And they can deceive people, and they can deceive only because, particularly in the West, people are no more materialistic.


Let me explain it. In the West there is material affluence. People have much more money, better houses, bigger cars, better bank balances, that is true -- but people are not materialistic. They have much material wealth, but that does not mean that they are materialistic. In the East, people are poor, but that does not mean that they are spiritual. Poverty has nothing to do with spirituality. In fact, you can become aware that material wealth has nothing in it only when you have it, not before it.


Psychologists talk about three layers or planes of desires and needs -- they call it the hierarchy of needs. The first they call physiological needs, the second psychological needs, the third spiritual needs. And this idea of the hierarchy of needs is very very important.


The first and the basic needs are physiological -- food, sex, shelter. If food is not available, you cannot think of poetry. If food is not available, you cannot think of music; a higher need. If sex is not available, you cannot think of love. Love is a higher need; it comes only when sex has become very very satisfied, not before it. When you have food, right shelter, clothes, warmth, and you are not constantly starving yourself and not constantly afraid of tomorrow -- tomorrow is coming and you may again be hungry and you may not get bread and butter -- then you start thinking of something else: music, poetry, literature, painting. When sex needs are fulfilled love arises; it cannot arise if sex needs are not fulfilled. And in India sex needs are not fulfilled, that's why people are not loving -- notwith-standing what they pretend. People are not loving because their basic need is not fulfilled: they are sexually starved.


Because the food need is not fulfilled -- thousands of people die every year because of starvation, and those who are not dying are undernourished -- so they cannot have higher needs, they cannot think of beauty, and they cannot think of stars. And they cannot see dewdrops on the grasses in the morning, and they cannot see the sun rising -- that is not possible. The body needs to be completely satisfied. When the body is satisfied, it starts moving into new dimensions: it thinks of higher things, it dreams of higher things.


The second stage is of psychological needs: love, music, art, painting, poetry, sculpture. If your love need is not fulfilled then prayer never arises. That is the third, the highest need. Sex fulfilled... Love arises; love fulfilled... prayer arises. When physiological needs are fulfilled you start singing and dancing. When the dance need is fulfilled, then arises the need to meditate. When you have heard the outer music, then you want to hear the inner music. When you have known the poetry that is created by words, then you want to know the poetry that is wordless, the poetry that arises in silence. Those are spiritual needs. And there is no way to jump them.


What I am talking about here is the highest need. So it is not accidental that the people from the West are coming to me, and the people of India go on condemning me; it is just natural. I don't take any offense from it; it is natural, it is how it should be. I am talking of the third need -- the spiritual need -- and people in India are not even fulfilling their first need. There is no meeting between me and them. I am a stranger here, an outsider. They need food first, they don't need God at all. God does not make sense. they can't be interested in music? How can they see the beauty of a solitary tree standing in the field all alone? It is impossible. They are preoccupied with their body needs.


So whatsoever I say is completely incomprehensible to them. They take revenge. They go on criticising. In criticising me they think they have solved the problem; they are deceiving themselves. They don't want to see the problem. They don't want to see that a country can be spiritual only when it has settled as far as materialism is concerned.
Spirituality is a higher stage of materialism.


It is the same search. First you have to seek in matter, then you have to seek in mind. When you don't find in matter, you start seeking in mind, but the matter has to be searched completely, only then can you rise to the mind. When you search in the mind and you don't find it -- and you have searched the whole realm of the mind -- then you start searching in the soul. That's how it is. And because I call a spade a spade, people don't like it.


How can they like it? If I say that India is very sexually-obsessed -- how can they like it? They like Vivekananda because he says You are the greatest country in the world. You are the most spiritual country in the world. You are the source of all spirituality. You are the source of all wisdom. You are the source which is going to lead the whole world. They feel very good. They can t feel good with me. With Vivekananda they feel good. Vivekananda becomes a hero, because he satisfies their egos. And just because he satisfies their egos, I declare that he is not enlightened, because no enlightened man will ever satisfy anybody's ego. Because to satisfy anybody's ego, is really inimical, it is poisoning him.


I say things as they are. I say it is one of the most barbarous countries -- ugly, materialistic. money-oriented, sex-obsessed. And I don't deny that Buddha has been here, Mahavir has been here. They were spiritual people, but they don't make the whole country spiritual.


If I am here -- remember it -- some day, after a few centuries, Poona will claim that Poona is spiritual because of me. And I have nothing to dc. with Poona and Poona has nothing to do with me. Just the same was the case with Buddha. India had nothing to do with him. He was alone and solitary, and people were criticising him as cruelly as they are criticising me. They have always done that. They were throwing stones at Mahavir, they are throwing stones at me. They have always done that. And not only here. everywhere in the world they have done that. Whenever there is somebody who brings light into the darkness, people feel offended. Because his presence becomes a very very embarrassing phenomenon -- he reminds you of your darkness, he reminds you of your ugliness.


Have you not heard about the woman who was against mirrors? Whenever she would come across a mirror, she would immediately throw a stone and break it. Why was she so much against mirrors? This was her logic: Mirrors are against me, and whenever I come before a mirror, the mirror shows that I am ugly. She was ugly, but she was very much offended by the mirror, because the mirror showed her as ugly. She was throwing the responsibility onto the mirror.


That has always been so. Buddha is a mirror: he reflects whatsoever you are. If you are ugly, he rejects you as ugly. If you are materialistic, he reflects you as materialistic. He simply reflects without changing, without colouring -- he simply reflects that which is. Naturally people feel offended, because then their ugliness and all kinds of darknesses and snakes and scorpions moving inside their being are all reflected. They want to throw a stone at the mirror. If the mirror is not there, they will be again at ease.


Hence, they crucified Jesus, and they killed Socrates. This has been their attitude everywhere and always.


You ask me: INDIA IS SUCH A SACRED COUNTRY: THE HEART OF SPIRITUALISM. I DON'T UNDERSTAND ALL THE CRUDE REMARKS THAT THEY WRITE IN MAGAZINES ABOUT YOU.


They are very very understandable. There is nothing special about them. If they didn't write those crude remarks about me, that would not be right.


Lao Tzu has said: When I talk about Tao, very few are there who understand it. Those who understand -- they become silent. Many are there who feel offended -- they become angry. And the angry people there are more of. And Lao Tzu says: If people don't become angry, then what I am saying is not truth.


One mystic used to stay with me. He was really a beautiful old man, very strange, very eccentric, but always to the point. He used to deliver talks all over the country. He had something to give. And whenever people applauded he would become very angry. He would say Stop! Don't applaud, because whenever you applaud, I think I must have said something wrong. If you can understand it, then it must be wrong. When you don't understand, only then is there a possibility that some truth has been said. And if you become angry, then certainly some truth has been said, then some stone has been thrown into your sleep, and you have become disturbed. Your dreams are disturbed. You are ready to take revenge.


Because I am saying the truth, because I am BEING the truth, it is very natural.
I DON'T UNDERSTAND ALL THE CRUDE REMARKS THAT THEY WRITE IN MAGAZINES ABOUT YOU.


They should be writing more and more. The more people will be coming to me, the angrier they will become, because the more dangerous I will be to them. And more and more people will be coming; they are on the way. And there will be thousands, many thousands of sannyasins around here. They will become very very angry, because then they will become afraid, more afraid that what I am saying is becoming powerful. They will try everything to destroy what I am saying. They will try in every way to destroy me.


That is natural, there is nothing unexpected in it. And you have to be ready for it: you have to be ready to accept all this. You need not feel offended, this is the way they are showing their respect towards me. When they threw stones at Buddha, they were showing their respect. That was their way of recognising that someone dangerous was present. When they crucified Jesus that was their respect -- their way of respecting a man who had brought truth to them. When they poisoned Socrates, that was their humble homage.


So this is going to happen, and this is going to happen more and more. You have to be accepting of it without any anger.
WHY IS INDIA SO IGNORANT IN RECOGNISING YOU?


Because India is very knowledgeable: India thinks it knows already. Every PAN WALA, every CHAI WALA -- they all know what truth is. They can quote the Gita and the Vedas, they are like parrots. India is a country of pundits, parrots. They go on repeating mechanically. And because they think they know, how can they recognise me? Because I am saying things which go against their parrot-like knowledge. I go on saying things which ARE against their so-called knowledge. I am trying to give truth new words, because the old words have become rotten, because the old words have been used so long they have lost intensity. They have lost life, they have become like a dirty currency note. When a currency note comes from the mint it is fresh, clean; when it moves through hands -- from one hand to another -- it starts becoming dirty.


Words are also currency. Currency means they go on moving, they are like a current -- from one mouth to another mouth the word goes on moving down the centuries. It becomes very dirty. The Vedas have become dirty, so has the Bible. I am trying to renew: I am trying to give new words to old truths, new bottles for the old wine. They cannot recognise the bottle, they don't know anything about the wine -- they have never tasted it. They only know about the old bottle. When they see the new bottle they become angry -- This can t be the truth! The truth has to be in the.old bottle. And the old bottle is rotten, maybe broken, and the wine has flowed out of it. It may be just an empty bottle, and they don't know anything about the wine, they only know about the bottle. So if I give a new bottle, they cannot recognise it. Only those who have tasted wine will recognise me, not otherwise.


You will recognise me because you are tasting with me. You are a part of the feast I am, you are celebrating with me. The more you taste, the more you will know that what I am saying is exactly v hat Jesus said, or Buddha said, or Krishna said. But first you will have to taste me, then that recognition will come. They are too occupied with Krishna's words and Buddha's words. Those words are like bottles.


And they cannot come here, they are very much scared, frightened. Maybe they have deep down somewhere a suspicion, Maybe there is truth...? and if they come close they may be converted. That fear, that unconscious fear is there. They go on talking against me and they don't know anything about me. They go on writing against me and they have never come here. They never listen, they never look into my eyes, they never come close. They go on circulating rumours, and they feed upon each other's rumours. It is a mutual arrangement. Somebody writes one article in a magazine, somebody else reads it, writes another -- basing himself on that article. And it goes on and goes on in this way.


And of course, then they have much material: they have been reflecting each other. And nobody comes to me. But that's how they have always been doing. They are afraid to come. In fact, they criticise me just to protect themselves. That criticism helps them. Because of the criticism they can think that now there is no need.


But more and more people will be coming to me. Thirsty people, seekers who have nothing to do with Christianity or Hinduism or Mohammedanism -- they will be coming to me. I am here only for the seekers not for the mob. And what the mob says is irrelevant. I am here for those who are ready to be transformed and transfigured. And I only want to be for them. I don't want to waste a single minute on anybody else. And these people are there in the world -- many at this moment, because this moment is very critical in the history of man, in the history of human consciousness.


A great jump! Either man dies or man becomes new -- that is the only choice. The old man cannot continue. The old man has arranged for his suicide: he is ready to commit global suicide. Either the old mind wins and there will be a global suicide and humanity will disappear from the earth, or the new mind will be born -- and that's w hat the effort here is -- and humanity will take a new direction. The new man will be born.


The new man will not be Indian, and will not be German, and will not be Chinese. The new man will not be Christian, will not be Hindu, will not be Mohammedan. The new man will not be black, will not be white. The new man will not be man, will not be woman. The new man will be a totally different kind of being, with no adjectives around him... a purity, a primal innocence. My work is to give birth to that new man.


And if only a few can be transformed, they will become the heralds. Only a few seeds... if they can grow into the new man, they will create the new humanity. My whole interest is with them and in them. I want to invest my whole energy into those few people who are ready to slip out of the old skin and become new.


The Indians cannot recognise me, the Christians cannot recognise me, the Hindus cannot recognise me. To recognise me they will have to come out of their preoccupations.


Two keen football fans up in London for a big match, decided to spend the evening at a Soho strip-club. The first act was a very voluptuous blonde who went through her whole routine while the whole audience stared open-mouthed. As the curtain came down and the applause rang out, one of the two fans said 'Phooey!'


His companion was surprised, but said nothing. The second act was even more breathtaking but again, when the curtain came down, the first man said 'Phooey!'


This went on all through the show -- however beautiful and exotic the girls were, after each act the first man said 'Phooey!'


Finally the second man could stand it no longer.
'What's the matter with you?' he said. 'These are some of the most attractive and sexy girls I've ever seen -- and all you can say is "Phooey?"'
'I'm not thinking about the girls replied the friend. I'm thinking about my wife!'


Now this is his preoccupation. He is not looking at those girls, he is thinking of his wife. He is not saying Phooey! to these girls. He is saying 'Phooey!' to his wife again and again. A preoccupied mind never sees that which it is confronting, never sees that which is; it goes on comparing. When an Indian comes, he is not listening to what I am saying, he is comparing in his head -- whether it corresponds with the Vedas, whether it follows the Gita, is in harmony with this or that. He is continuously working inside his mind, comparing, judging, condemning, criticising -- and he goes on missing. He looks as if he is here, he is not here.


And it is not only a question of Indians. anybody who has come with a fixed mind, will have the same difficulty.


Yoga Prem's old mother is here. And just the other day somebody said that she went to mass in the church. Here Jesus is being made alive. Here we are living Jesus again, moving with Jesus again, here Jesus is again not a history but a presence. But Yoga Prem's mother had to go to the church, to mass, to listen to some stupid priest there.


The preoccupied mind! My Christ is not her Christ. My Christ is alien. She wants the Christ who is sold in the church, she wants the old bottle. She must have felt good there, because this must be a strange world to her. These orange people -- what are they doing here? There, with the same kind of people, with the same kind of mind, she must have felt good, she must have felt relaxed, at home. This is how it happens with the preoccupied mind.


The Christian visitor to Jerusalem asked his Israeli host to show him the Wailing Wall. Arriving at the sacred spot, the visitor put on his hat, stood close to the wall, and said 'Thank you, Lord, for all the blessings you have bestowed upon me during my life.' Then he turned to his Israeli friend and said 'Is that nice?'
That's nice said the Israeli smiling.
The Christian then turned back to the wall and said 'Please, Lord, keep my family and friends in health and prosperity. Is that nice?'
'That's nice.'
'And persuade the Israelis to see the error of their ways and to hand back to the Arab nations the land taken from them in the recent conflicts so that there may be peace in the Middle East. Is that nice?'
And the Israeli said 'You're talking to a wall.'
<p class="question">I AM VERY INTERESTED IN THE 'MIRACLES' OF JESUS, ESPECIALLY HIS HEALINGS AND HIS RESURRECTION. HE HAS ALSO SAID THAT OTHERS COULD DO THE SAME. IS THIS POSSIBLE? IF SO, HOW? AND IS IT NECESSARY FOR THE PHYSICAL BODY TO DIE BEFORE ONE LEARNS HOW TO MANIFEST AND DE-MANIFEST AT WILL?
I HAVE REBIRTHER FRIENDS WHO HAVE DEVELOPED SOME 'POWERS': TELEPORTATION, ASTRAL DOUBLE, TRANSFORMING ONE'S BODY FORM AND FUNCTIONS. IS IT DANGEROUS FOR THEM TO BE DEVELOPING THESE 'POWERS' BEFORE BEING FULLY REALISED? THEY SAY IT'S EASY. YOU JUST HAVE TO BELIEVE YOU CAN DO IT.

HOW DOES ONE PROTECT ONESELF FROM NEGATIVE GROUP THOUGHT FORMS? FOR EXAMPLE 'DON'T DRINK THE WATER OR YOU'LL GET AMOEBAS' OR 'EVERYONE GETS SICK IN POONA.' IT SEEMS TO BE TRUE. I HAD NOT BEEN SICK FOR TWO YEARS BEFORE COMING HERE, AND HAD LEARNED TO HEAL MYSELF. YET HERE I FEEL THE GROUP CONSCIOUS OR UNCONSCIOUS NEGATIVITY WEIGHING ME DOWN. I TOO AM SICK AND I DON'T LIKE IT VERY MUCH.

WHAT I DON'T LIKE IS FEELING THE EFFECT OF THE GROUP MIND AND UNABLE TO MAINTAIN MY SPACE. PLEASE DISCUSS. IT HAS ALWAYS SEEMED TO ME THAT BELIEFS ARE MORE CONTAGIOUS THAN 'GERMS' OR 'INFECTIONS'..</p>


The question is from Ma Prem Mantra.
A few things... First: Mantra must be very much afraid of death -- that's why the interest in resurrection. It has nothing to ,do with Jesus and his resurrection, it has something to do with your deep fear of death.


The interest IN THE 'MIRACLES' OF JESUS, ESPECIALLY HIS HEALINGS AND HIS RESURRECTION... Mantra must be very much afraid of death and illness.


This interest arises because of that fear, otherwise who bothers? If you are not afraid of death, who bothers about resurrection? It is fear. In fact, if it is proved absolutely that there had been no resurrection in Jesus' life, ninety-nine per cent of Christians will drop being Christian, because then what is the point? They have been hanging around this person with the idea that he knows the secret of resurrecting himself, somehow he will impart his secrets and keys to them. Or maybe, if he does not show the art, at least he can do the miracles for them; he can save them. It is fear of death.


If it is proved absolutely that Jesus never did any healing miracles, then you will not find many Christians in the world; they will disappear. They are not interested in Jesus at all. Their whole interest is in how to protect themselves from illness, and finally, from death.


Mantra, rather than thinking of resurrection and healing miracles, go deep inside yourself and look into your fear of death. There is no resurrection, but if you go deep into your fear of death, it disappears. And with the fear of death, death disappears. Then you know you are eternal life. There is no resurrection. Resurrection is possible only if first you DIE! You never die. Nobody has ever died. Death is a myth!


The word myth comes from a Sanskrit root MITHYA. MITHYA means false. Death is a falsity. Death has never happened -- never is going to happen. It cannot happen in the very case. Life is eternal, only forms change. You die here, your flame disappears in this body. and it becomes embodied in some other body, you are born in some other womb. And so on and so forth. And even when there is no more birth, you disappear into God. But life lives.


And when I am saying life lives, I don't mean Mantra lives, no. Mantra is a form. You are a form. The form is not eternal. The form is going down the drain. Even while you are alive you will change your form a thousand and one times. If somebody brings a picture of you -- of the first day when you were born -- will you be able to recognise that this IS YOUR picture? One day that was your form. Now you are seventy years old, you cannot recognise it. But maybe the first day's picture can even have some resemblance.


But what about when you were in your mother's womb? If a picture could have been taken, the first day you entered the mother's womb, would you be able to recognise that small cell? It will not have your face, it will not have your nose, it will not have any visible mark; it will just be a small life cell. It was you Then during those nine months. your form goes on changing, changing, changing. And then your whole life the form goes on changing.


Form is a flux. You never die! Form dies every clay. But the problem arises because you have become too identified with the form. You think I am the form. You think I am this body. Then the fear of death arises.


You need not learn the art of resurrection. You have simply to learn that death does not exist; there is no need to resurrect because you cannot die in the first place! Rather than being intrigued by Jesus miracles, perform a miracle, Mantra: go into yourself. That is the only miracle. Go into your fear of death, and go on deeper into it, and see WHERE it is, WHAT it is. Watch it.


And don't rationalise, and don't bring theories borrowed from the outside to console yourself. Don't say that soul is eternal, no; you don't know yet. I am saying it is eternal, but that is not your knowledge. Don't make it your consolation.


You have to go trembling, you have to go with fear, you have to descend the staircase of death. You have to go to the very end. You have to see the whole possibility of death -- what it is. In that very seeing you will be surprised that you are not it. You are not the body, you are not even the mind. You are just pure life energy, you are a witness. In that witnessing is the real miracle.


You say: I AM VERY INTERESTED IN THE 'MIRACLES' OF JESUS, ESPECIALLY HIS HEALINGS AND HIS RESURRECTION.


You are not interested in Jesus at all. If you are interested in his miracles of healing and resurrection that is a wrong kind of interest. And because of that, Jesus religion died very early. It really was a miscarriage.


Buddha still lives far more penetratingly in human consciousness because he never did anything like miracles. So only the people who were REALLY interested in inquiry came to him. Jesus attracted wrong people; wrong people came around him, and then Christianity made its base on his miracles. And I don't think that he ever did any miracles.


He did miracles which are far-penetrating, but they are totally different from what you have heard. Yes, he healed the eyes, but not the physical eyes; he healed the inner eyes. Yes, he made people listen who were deaf, but that has nothing to do with your physical deafness. All are deaf, and all are blind. And he touched people's eyes and their ears and opened them. And all are dead! -- because you are identified with the body, which is death. You are identified with the form, which is death. Yes, he helped many people to come out of death.


That is the meaning of the story of Lazarus. He called forth Lazarus, Come out! On the ordinary plane it seems that he called him from his grave. On the higher plane it means that he called him from his body -- the body is your grave. He made him aware that he is consciousness not the body. That is the real miracle! But somehow the followers of Jesus got mixed up.


That's why I say again and again he was not as fortunate as Buddha, because he didn't get the right kind of following -- and much depends on followers. A single wrong follower and he can destroy, can change the whole story, can interpret the whole story in a wrong way.


When Buddha died, his disciples gathered together to write down whatsoever he had said. Now there were millions of stories because everybody was relating in his own way. How to decide? And all these people were eye-witnesses and very cultured people, sophisticated people. And they were saying different things, contradictory to each other. Then it was decided that only those few disciples who had become enlightened in Buddha's days should be listened to. Even one of the most intimate followers, Ananda, was not allowed because he had not yet become enlightened. He was the MOST intimate disciple.


He lived with Buddha for forty years, day in, day out, year in, year out. Not for a single day was he away from Buddha. For forty years he slept in Buddha's room. He took every care of Buddha. He should be relied upon. Whatsoever he says should be the most authentic, because he had listened to everything that Buddha said in those forty years after his enlightenment. Not a single word has he missed, and he was very sophisticated, cultured -- had a beautiful memory, one of the most miraculous memories. He could repeat things word by word. But even he was not allowed. He cried, he wept, he said What are you doing? I was the most intimate. You people have lived for a few days with Buddha -- somebody for a few months; I have lived for forty years. And not only during the day, but at night too. And we had many conversations which nobody has ever heard. I know much more than anybody else!'


And they said, 'That's true, but you are not enlightened yet. You can be dangerous. Your unenlightened mind can pollute the whole message. You may put something into it, you may delete something from it, and that will be uncon-scious! Not that you will be doing it; it will happen automatically because of your unconsciousness. And because of your unconsciousness you may emphasise something that looks more important. You may forget something or may not emphasise something which was more important or would have been more important if you were enlightened. the emphasis will be different. You will underline different things than an enlightened person would. You cannot be allowed.'


Five hundred disciples who had become enlightened in Buddha's days -- whose enlightenment was declared by Buddha himself -- only they were allowed. Buddhist scriptures are the most authentic. And Ananda was sitting outside the door crying. After twenty-four hours he was allowed. What happened?


In those twenty-four hours for the first time, the last barrier that had remained in him broke. That was a barrier that had persisted for forty-two years. He was a cousin-brother to Buddha, and an ELDER cousin-brother. When he had come to be initiated by Buddha -- he was elder and, in India, traditionally the elder brother can command the younger brother -- he said to Buddha 'Before I am initiated by you, let me command you three things. I am your elder brother. Once I am initiated, I will be a disciple, then whatsoever you say I will have to follow. But I am not yet your disciple, I am your elder brother. Promise me these three things, then initiate me.'


Buddha said 'What are those three things?'
'First' he said 'I will live with you twenty-four hours a day for ever. You will not be able to say "Ananda, you go somewhere, or you do something." I will follow you like a shadow. Promise?' And Buddha promised. Of course when an elder brother asks such a thing, how can he deny him? He said 'Okay. What is your second?'


And he said 'Even in the middle of night, if I bring somebody inside, you will have to give an appointment -- you cannot say no to me. I will have the sole right. Anybody, if I feel that he needs you, and needs you immediately... I will have the sole right. I will decide it.'
Buddha said 'Okay. And what is your third?'


And he said 'My third is that whatsoever I ask you will have to answer. You cannot postpone, you cannot say "Later on", or "After some days". You will have to answer it immediately.'


Buddha promised these three things. Ananda became his disciple, but that ego remained: 'I am the elder brother, I am the most close, I am the only one who sleeps in the Buddha's room, I am the only one who can ask any question and Buddha has to answer. That ego remained. Otherwise he became surrendered, but that ego remained.


When the conference of the monks did not allow him in, it was so painful to him, it was so wounding... it hurt, and he cried and wept outside. And then he became aware that because of this small ego, subtle ego, many more came to Buddha and became enlightened and he didn't become. In that awareness that ego melted. And you will be surprised that when Ananda became enlightened, the whole conference inside -- five hundred monks -- immediately felt it. They said 'Open the door. Ananda is no more the same person. Bring him in.'


Jesus was not so fortunate. His disciples were ordinary in a sense. Not a single one was enlightened, so whatsoever they wrote was from the unenlightened standpoint. So the real meanings got lost and unreal meanings got imposed. The miracle of giving eyes to a spiritually blind man became a miracle of giving eyes to a blind man. Healing a person from the illness called 'this world' became an ordinary healing of a person from tuberculosis or something like that. Making a person really alive for the first time -- and he was dead up to now -- became an ordinary miracle of giving life to a dead man.


Mantra, don't be interested wrongly. Your interest is wrong.


Second: HE HAS ALSO SAID THAT OTHERS COULD DO THE SAME. IS THIS POSSIBLE? IF SO, HOW? AND IS IT NECESSARY FOR THE PHYSICAL BODY TO DIE BEFORE ONE LEARNS HOW TO MANIFEST AND DE-MANIFEST AT WILL?


Will is the source of ego. Let it be understood deeply. ALL is possible if the will is dissolved into God's will. ALL IS possible -- with no conditions. But if you want to do it AT WILL, then you will become more and more egoistic. And that's what happens. People who can do a few things, which are not of any significance, become very egoistic because THEY can do them. All these so-called SIDDHIS and miraculous powers just enhance your ego and ARE AGAINST spiritual growth. Beware of them.


These things can be done! Mind has great powers, but to use the powers of the mind is to prevent yourself from going higher than the mind. You will get stuck there. A few people are stuck in the world -- in the world also there are many powers. A politician has great power, a man who has money has great power. A few people are lost in worldly powers: those powers belong to the body level. Then a few people are lost in mental powers. Then you can have clairaudience, telepathy -- things like that -- mind reading. But you will be lost, you will never move beyond that.
Get out of the world, and get out of the mind too!


And whenever you develop something, it becomes difficult to drop it. Yes! When you become spiritual, all powers become available to you: of the body, of the mind. But then who uses them? It is so stupid then to use them. It is so meaningless, it is so childish.


These powers can be developed, these mind powers. And two are the ways: either you develop imagination or you develop will, then you can develop these powers. These are the two ways -- both are dangerous.


If you develop the power of imagination, it is a double-edged sword. For example, that's what has happened to Mantra. She says she was not ill for two years, and she was powerful enough. Then what happened? She came here, and she heard these things. Imagination can work both ways: it can make you healthy, it can make you ill. If your imagination gets the idea 'I am healthy', then you will feel healthy. If the imagination gets the idea that you are ill, you will become ill. Beware of imagination, it is dangerous because it carries the opposite in it.


Or, there is some possibility to develop will -- that is developing your ego. That is far more dangerous than imagination, because the more the ego becomes crystallised, the less is the possibility to go beyond. You will be confined.

Imagination is like this:


The team that wins the Football League Cup usually has quite a celebration afterwards. The morning after such a night before, one member of the winning team woke to find himself in a hospital bed, heavily bandaged, with one of his team-mates sitting beside him.
'What happened?' he asked groggily.
'Well, it was at the reception last night -- don't you remember?' said his mate. 'After your seventeenth or eighteenth pint, you went over to the window and said you were going to fly round the hotel and land on the roof.'
'Why on earth didn't you try and stop me?' said the man in the bed.
'Last night I thought you could do it!' replied his friend.

He must have taken at least sixteen pints himself.


Imagination can create many things. And you can live in imagination, and in your imagination you will feel that it is happening. And it happens too! If there is no doubt inside you, imagination is a great force. It can create a dream almost as real as possible. That's what is happening to LSD people.


Karl Marx has said 'Religion is the opiate of the people.' Timothy Leary says 'Opium is the religion of the people.' And I say to you: Religion is religion, opium is opium! Neither religion is opium nor opium is religion.


That's what you are enjoying when you are on an acid trip. Then you are full of imagination -- there is no bondage to your imagination. Then you live in a totally separate reality, the reality that Castaneda talks about; it is out of drugs. And in the East people have done it long. In the Vedas they talk about SOMA -- it was their LSD. And then down the ages in the East, people have tried all kinds of things -- marijuana, opium and others, mushrooms. Now in the West, the idea is-catching hold of people's imagination. Beware of imagination. Imagination cannot help, it can only give you beautiful dreams; but they ARE dreams. When they are there they look very real. When they are gone you are lost into darkness.


You-can create these imaginations without drugs, too. Through certain breathing exercises, you can create them, because breathing can change your inner chemistry. Through certain yoga exercises you can change your inner chemistry. Through fasting you can change your chemistry. But by changing your chemistry you are not changing your soul.


Or you can create great friction. Through friction, ego is created, will is created. You can start fighting with something.


For example, a man decides that he will not sleep for one year. Now there is going to be great friction. Every night he will have to fight hard. After a few nights, even in the day it will be difficult for him -- a continuous fight will be there. And if he goes on fighting, goes on fighting, it is a friction, a struggle. And if he goes on keeping himself alert, a moment comes when the body surrenders. Then he can be awake and sleep will not come any more. With this he will become very very WILLFUL. Now he can do many things.


He can say to somebody 'You will die tomorrow!' And just his assertion will have so much will, it will go like a dagger and will kill the man. Or, he can be helpful also. Somebody is ill, and he can say 'You are cured!' And when he is saying 'You are cured' he is total; there is no doubt in him. Because there is no doubt in him, he creates a pulsation in the other person of trust, of no doubt that he will be cured.


This man can be helpful, can be dangerous -- to others. But to himself he is always dangerous. To others it is possible, helpful or dangerous. But to himself he is always dangerous, because now he is caught in a will. The will has become very strong -- now he cannot get out of it, now he cannot surrender it. And now there is much investment in it too. He has worked for it for so long, how can he surrender it? And there is always a possibility when you have power to misuse it.


Power corrupts, not only political power, but the so-called psychic power also corrupts. And absolute power corrupts absolutely.


So this is my suggestion to you: Rather than thinking of resurrection, powers, miracles, will -- think, meditate more about what this life is. Go into it, otherwise you will be moving in a wrong direction. You will be gathering junk and you will be throwing away real diamonds.

Meditate on this small anecdote:.


A young American entered a railway compartment on a British Rail train, to discover that all the seats were occupied, including one on which was seated a small Pekinese dog. To its owner, a middle-aged lady wearing a large flowered hat, he said politely 'Excuse me, Ma'am, but may I sit down?' She said nothing, but merely sniffed and turned over the pages of her Illustrated London News.


Again he said 'Excuse me, Ma'am, but may I have this seat please?' And again she ignored him.


For a third time the young American said 'Ma'am, would you please remove your dog so that I may sit down?'


And for the third time the snooty matron utterly ignored him, so he opened a window, picked up the dog, hurled it out and then sat down on the empty seat.


There was stunned silence, and then an Englishman sitting opposite said 'You know, you Yanks are the strangest people. You drive on the wrong side of the road, you eat with your fork in the wrong hand, and now you have just thrown the wrong bitch out of the window.'
			

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