---
section: Library
booktitle: "Live Zen"
booktype: "Discourses"
bookcode: "LIVEZ"
dategiven: "23 April 1988 pm"
place: " in Gautam the Buddha Auditorium"
chapternum: "Chapter #2"
chaptertitle: "From here to here - no space for the way"
acode: "8804235"
shorttitle: "LIVEZ02"
audio: "Yes"
video: "Yes"
esttime: "80mins"
displaytitle: "Live Zen: Chapter #2"
---

```style
.sutra {
  font-style: italic;
  white-space: pre-wrap !important;
}
```
<!--This file is automatically generated. Do not edit!-->
<p class="sutra">BELOVED OSHO,
JOSHU SPOKE TO THE ASSEMBLY AND SAID, "THE REAL WAY IS NOT DIFFICULT.
IT ONLY ABHORS CHOICE AND ATTACHMENT.
WITH BUT A SINGLE WORD THERE MAY ARISE CHOICE
AND ATTACHMENT OR THERE MAY ARISE CLARITY.
THIS OLD MONK DOES NOT HAVE THAT CLARITY.
DO YOU APPRECIATE THE MEANING OF THIS OR NOT?"
THEN A MONK ASKED, "IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THAT CLARITY, WHAT DO YOU APPRECIATE?"
JOSHU SAID, "I DO NOT KNOW THAT EITHER."
THE MONK SAID, "IF YOU DO NOT KNOW, HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT YOU DO NOT HAVE THAT CLARITY?"
JOSHU SAID, "ASKING THE QUESTION IS GOOD ENOUGH. NOW MAKE YOUR BOWS AND RETIRE."
SETCHO SAYS:
THE REAL WAY IS NOT DIFFICULT.
DIRECT WORD! DIRECT SPEECH!
ONE WITH MANY PHASES.
TWO WITH ONE.
FAR AWAY IN THE HEAVENS THE SUN RISES, THE MOON SETS;
BEYOND THE HILLS THE HIGH MOUNTAINS, THE COLD WATERS.
THE SKULL HAS NO CONSCIOUSNESS, NO DELIGHT;
THE DEAD TREE SINGS IN THE WIND, NOT YET ROTTEN.
DIFFICULT, DIFFICULT!
ATTACHMENT AND CLARITY; WATCH, AND PENETRATE THE SECRET!

OSHO,
IN LIFE ONE CONTINUALLY HAS TO MAKE PRACTICAL DECISIONS -- ABOUT HOW ONE WILL USE ONE'S TIME AND ENERGY, WITH WHOM ONE WILL KEEP COMPANY, WHAT ONE WILL EAT...
IS THERE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MAKING CHOICES, JUDGING AND DISCRIMINATING?</p>


Maneesha, we are reaching to the second greatest Zen master, Joshu. Nothing can be compared with Bodhidharma, but if anyone else comes close to him, that is Joshu. But he just comes close, not to that height, not that Everest, but one cannot do anything about it.
Some trees grow very high, some trees don't.
In the world of trees there is no comparison.


In the world of real consciousness, authentic realization, also there can be no comparison. But still one should not forget the highest, so that one does not become lost into the thousand and one great peaks.


The Himalayas are thousands of miles. Each peak is unique has to say something, has to reveal some beauty, some truth... stands on its own feet, not dependent, not imprisoned, with tremendous glory and splendor.


One can easily get lost and I would like you to remember the highest, because that should be your aim too.... Your arrow should point to the highest.


Before I say something about Joshu, I would like to remind you of Bodhidharma's sutras that we discussed yesterday. In just a very few words he has condensed the whole experience, the whole interiority, the whole kingdom of God: "Emptiness, nothing holy." And when the emperor asked, "Then who is standing before me?" the answer was, "No knowing."


Yesterday I forgot a very special point to be made to you that will give you the taste of real Zen. He said, "NO KNOWING." He could have said, "Not knowing," but he chose, "No knowing," because "not knowing" implies the existence of I. No knowing does not imply; it simply states innocence. Not knowing is ignorance and no knowing is innocence.


Such is the clarity and depth of this man Bodhidharma. Even Socrates said, "I do not know anything." Even he falls far below the heights of Bodhidharma. He accepts in his statement the existence of I; he accepts the existence of knowledge. He is simply saying, "I am ignorant."


Just a little difference, how small and how delicate: no knowing -- not knowing. A small letter 't' and worlds are set apart.


In these fourteen centuries that have followed Bodhidharma, hundreds of Zen masters of great clarity, insight, awakening, have happened, but no one even comes close to the depth, the subtlety, the beauty and the immense perception of Bodhidharma. As I look into Bodhidharma, I don't find any other single individual in the whole history of mankind -- even Gautam Buddha included -- who can be said to have condensed religion into its simplest possibility, expressed religion into its absolute purity. It is obvious that this man is going to be misunderstood, condemned, ignored. The greatest peak of consciousness that man has achieved, mankind has not been kind enough to remember it. Perhaps there are heights our eyes cannot reach, but we should try our best; one never knows.


Just a few days ago China discovered a higher peak of the Himalayas than Everest. For centuries Everest was the highest peak; it is no longer so. It is good that Edmund Hillary is dead; otherwise in his old age he would have suffered very much. He has enjoyed the great success of reaching to the highest peak of Everest. But fortunately before China's discovery he was dead.


It is possible that some day someone may reach to a higher consciousness than Bodhidharma. It has not happened for fourteen centuries, but that does not mean it is absolutely decisive. I don't see any difficulty, because the sky is infinite. Just a little more courage, a little more understanding, a little higher flight and you can reach to the joy that has been up to now only Bodhidharma's.


I would love my people to remember it, that there is no limitation, no boundaries, no hindrances -- there are skies upon skies. As long as you want you can fly, you won't touch the boundary of the universe. There is no such thing, no boundary line.


It has been very difficult for scientists to accept the idea that the universe is unbounded. Obviously it is difficult even to conceive of something that has no boundaries. One tends to think that somewhere, very far away, millions or trillions of light years away, but there must be a boundary! Mind can accept any boundary anywhere, but the reality is that by its very nature, existence cannot have any boundary, because what will be beyond the boundary? -- again another sky. That's why I am saying skies upon skies are available for your flight. Don't be content easily. Those who remain content easily remain small: small are their joys, small are their ecstasies, small are their silences, small is their being.


But there is no need. This smallness is your own imposition upon your freedom, upon your unlimited possibilities, upon your unlimited potential.
Bodhidharma is a milestone, but the way goes farther, always farther.

Joshu says: THE REAL WAY IS NOT DIFFICULT.


Our minds say that spiritual growth is very difficult. Our religions make it as difficult as possible. According to them it takes many, many lives to reach to your own self -- how ridiculous, how stupid! If I am to reach to myself... in fact I will tell Zen Master Niskriya to give a good Yaa-Hoo hit to Joshu.
Niskriya...

(NISKRIYA IS DRESSED UP AS A ZEN MONK. IT FITS HIM VERY WELL! -- ESPECIALLY SINCE HE CUT HIS HAIR VERY SHORT A FEW DAYS BEFORE. HE IS HESITANT, WHAT TO DO.)

Give it without any fear.

(NISKRIYA GETS UP.)

Where is your staff?

(HE PRODUCES A LONG WOODEN STAFF, TO EVERYBODY'S ASTONISHMENT.)

Right! Have the staff. Good.
Whom do you think to hit?

(NISKRIYA HITS WITH THE STAFF ON HIS OWN HEAD! OSHO LAUGHS AND SIGNALS TO HIM TO SIT DOWN AGAIN.)

Good.


The real way is not difficult, because there is no way. You are already where you have always been and will always be. What nonsense to talk about The Way! That's why I said that, although Joshu is second in the hierarchy of Zen he has not that magic, that touch. That has been monopolized by Bodhidharma.


Even to talk about the way is to make things difficult. I absolutely agree with Joshu that the way is very easy, but I cannot agree with his expression in the way I can agree with Bodhidharma, with absolute synchronicity, as if I have spoken those words myself: Emptiness, nothing holy, no knowing.


With Joshu I can only sympathize. I will not say he is wrong, but I will certainly say that the moment you start talking about the way, it becomes difficult. It becomes difficult because from here to here, there is no space for the way. If you are going somewhere else a way is possible -- difficult or easy, it depends. But if you are not going anywhere, but simply being yourself, here and now...
Joshu needs a good hit.


By chance today Master Niskriya is dressed up exactly, but Joshu is not here. But wherever Joshu is, and whoever the people are who believe in Joshu's enlightenment, Master Niskriya's hit will reach. I am using Master Niskriya's hit because I am a very nonviolent person; moreover, so lazy that I have dedicated my whole function of hitting people to Master Niskriya. And he really looks... He is not only dressed up, at this moment he is. It is another matter that the next moment he may forget.
This moment you are also just emptiness.
No knowing.
Pure innocence.


But to go on remembering it is the only problem. You don't have to do anything, except to continue to remember that you are where you are, that you are what you are; that whatever you do, you can never be anywhere else, anybody else; that in this simple acceptance of your being, you have achieved all that has been achieved by the great buddhas.


There is no question of way; hence I can say that Joshu has a little understanding, but not much. He says, "The real way is not difficult."
<p class="sutra">JOSHU SPOKE TO THE ASSEMBLY AND SAID,
"THE REAL WAY IS NOT DIFFICULT.
IT ONLY ABHORS CHOICE AND ATTACHMENT.
WITH BUT A SINGLE WORD THERE MAY ARISE CHOICE AND ATTACHMENT OR THERE MAY ARISE CLARITY.
THIS OLD MONK DOES NOT HAVE THAT CLARITY.
DO YOU APPRECIATE THE MEANING OF THIS OR NOT?"</p>


If you accept the basic assumption that there is a way -- it is only a hypothesis -- then Joshu is right that the only things that can prevent you from reaching it are judgment, choice, attachment.


"WITH BUT A SINGLE WORD THERE MAY ARISE CHOICE AND ATTACHMENT OR THERE MAY ARISE CLARITY. THIS OLD MONK..." He is referring to himself: THIS OLD MONK DOES NOT HAVE THAT CLARITY. Only on this point does he reach a height, accepting that THIS OLD MONK -- he is not using the word 'I' -- THIS OLD MONK DOES NOT HAVE THAT CLARITY. DO YOU APPRECIATE THE MEANING OF THIS OR NOT?
He is asking the assembly of the other monks.


Before I discuss the answers of other monks, I would like to repeat again that fundamentally Joshu is absurd. There is no way; hence, the question of its difficulty or easiness does not arise. Because there is no way, there is no question of choice, choicelessness, judgment or no judgment, clarity or cloudedness.


So remember -- I was not in the assembly of Joshu, unfortunately, but time makes no difference. What I could not say in his assembly, I am saying in my own:
The way exists not. You are the very goal.
Now have a look to the assembly of Joshu's disciples...
<p class="sutra">THEN A MONK ASKED, "IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THAT CLARITY, WHAT DO YOU APPRECIATE?" JOSHU SAID,
"I DO NOT KNOW THAT EITHER."</p>


Again remember Bodhidharma saying that standing before you is no knowing. He does not even by implication allow the existence of an ego. Joshu does not have that penetration. He is far closer to Socrates. He says, I DO NOT KNOW THAT EITHER. He accepts the existence of 'I' and he accepts the existence of ignorance. He misses the great peak of no knowing.
<p class="sutra">THE MONK SAID, "IF YOU DO NOT KNOW, HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT YOU DO NOT HAVE THAT CLARITY?"</p>


These are tremendously beautiful dialogues. It is unfortunate that in our times there are no such assemblies; no such dialogues are happening, not even in our great universities. Everything has become so small, so mundane; everything has become so commercial.


The monk said to Joshu, IF YOU DO NOT KNOW, HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT YOU DO NOT HAVE THAT CLARITY? At least you know this much: that you don't have that clarity. The same would have been the situation of Socrates, but he was surrounded by very ordinary disciples. Joshu may not be right, but certainly he has great disciples.


The disciple is saying, "You say, I don't have that clarity -- at least you have accepted that you know SOMETHING. It is enough to show the contradiction."
<p class="sutra">JOSHU SAID, "ASKING THE QUESTION IS GOOD ENOUGH. NOW MAKE YOUR BOWS AND RETIRE."</p>


Not a great statement... The monk, unknown, was far more clear than the master himself. And saying to the monk that, NOW MAKE YOUR BOWS AND RETIRE, freaks me out! Joshu should have touched his feet and asked for forgiveness. He did not prove his steel.


Now again we have to listen to the schoolmaster Setcho: Setcho says, THE REAL WAY IS NOT DIFFICULT.
This is what is called parrot thinking. Now what is the point to repeat it?
<p class="sutra">THE REAL WAY IS NOT DIFFICULT.
DIRECT WORD! DIRECT SPEECH!</p>


Now this idiot does not understand a word and he is saying that what Joshu has said is:
<p class="sutra">DIRECT WORD! DIRECT SPEECH!
ONE WITH MANY PHASES,
TWO WITH ONE.
FAR AWAY IN THE HEAVENS THE SUN RISES, THE MOON SETS;
BEYOND THE HILLS THE HIGH MOUNTAINS, THE COLD WATERS.
THE SKULL HAS NO CONSCIOUSNESS, NO DELIGHT;
THE DEAD TREE SINGS IN THE WIND, NOT YET ROTTEN.
DIFFICULT, DIFFICULT!
ATTACHMENT AND CLARITY; WATCH, AND PENETRATE THE SECRET!</p>


There is no secret. Joshu's statement is simply without any reality in it, the question of any secret does not arise. But the schoolmaster tries to make it look as if there is some great secret. As a camouflage he writes some beautiful, poetic lines, but they have nothing to do with Joshu's remark. They are simply an attempt to express, to exhibit that "I am a man of great understanding, I know the secret; now you penetrate..." And there is no secret at all.
He reminds me of an old proverb...


In ancient Greece, in the times of Anagoras... Anagoras was one of the great predecessors of Socrates, not a great philosopher, but he became great because people poisoned him also. I have never talked about him because there is nothing much about him, but still -- by poisoning him, people have put him in the same category as Socrates and Jesus. Anagoras used to say -- and from him comes the proverb -- that a philosopher is a blind man in a dark night, in a dark house, searching for a black cat which is not there.
<p class="question">Maneesha, you are asking:
"IN LIFE ONE CONTINUALLY HAS TO MAKE PRACTICAL DECISIONS -- ABOUT HOW ONE WILL USE ONE'S TIME AND KEEP ENERGY, WITH WHOM ONE WILL KEEP COMPANY, WHAT ONE WILL EAT... IS THERE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MAKING CHOICES, JUDGING AND DISCRIMINATING?"</p>


In ordinary life everything that you are doing is alright, but if you want to know the extraordinary livingness of your innermost core, then you will have to drop judgment, choice, discrimination. There is no need. In the inner world there is no marketplace, no shopping mall! In the inner world even you are not! Who is going to judge and what is going to be judged?
Again remember Bodhidharma:
Emptiness, nothing holy, no knowing.


I am not speaking on Bodhidharma, I am speaking of my own vision, which coincides with that of Bodhidharma.


It has been a serious evening with Joshu... You have enjoyed the silence. Now I would like to disturb your silence a little as a preparation for a greater silence.


Pope the Polack is wandering through the Vatican gardens one day, when he nearly steps on a toad.
"Hey!" shouts the toad. "Don't pass me by!"
"What?" cries the startled pope.


"I am a human being," replies the toad, "who has been bewitched to look like a toad. Whoever saves me will have anything he wants."


"Well," replies Pope the Polack, "I always wanted to be the most famous pope of all time!"


"Simple!" says the toad. "You take me to your bed, let me sleep on your pillow, and in the morning you will have a wonderful surprise!"


So Pope the Polack puts the toad under his huge pointed hat and smuggles it into his bed.


Just as the cardinal brings in the pope's early morning tea, the toad changes into a beautiful princess... At least, this is the story the pope is giving to the newspapers.

The express train is crowded with businessmen on their way to the city.


In a first-class carriage, Mr. Wong is sitting reading the BEIJING TIMES, when a white-coated waiter comes along the passage with the breakfast trolley.
He stops by Mr. Wong, and says, "You for coffee?"
"No," snaps Wong, "I got first-class ticket. You fuck offee!"

Miss Goodbody's class goes for a picnic in the woods.


After all the kids have drunk lots of lemonade, several of the girls retire to the bushes to pee and there is trouble with the brambles and the nettles.


Little Ernie walks in amongst them, pulls out his pecker and pees without any trouble.


"Wow!" says little Sally, really impressed, "that's a handy thing to bring on a picnic!"


Mrs. Benzini has been visiting her psychiatrist, Professor Potts, for years and feels that she is not getting any better. One day, she decides to confront the shrink. "Doctor," she says, sitting up on the couch, "I come-a every week for five years. Nothing change-a. What's-a going on? You gotta tell me. What's-a wrong with me?"
"Well," replies Potts, "I will be frank with you. You are crazy!"
"What?" cries Mrs. Benzini. "Crazy? Crazy? I wanna second opinion!"
"Okay," says Potts, "you are ugly too!"

Now close your eyes...
Be absolutely still, as if frozen.

Now, relax.

Now, come back to life.

Okay, Maneesha?
Yes, Osho.
			

> [!info]
> Copyright 1964-1990 Osho (Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh)
>