---
section: Library
booktitle: "The Great Zen Master Ta Hui"
booktype: "Discourses"
bookcode: "TAHUI"
dategiven: "17 August 1987 pm"
place: " in Chuang Tzu Auditorium"
chapternum: "Chapter #32"
chaptertitle: "Desirelessness"
acode: "8708175"
shorttitle: "TAHUI32"
audio: "Yes"
video: "Yes"
esttime: "82mins"
displaytitle: "The Great Zen Master Ta Hui: Chapter #32"
---

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.sutra {
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  white-space: pre-wrap !important;
}
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<p class="sutra">BELOVED OSHO,
RELEASE
ONE DAY KU SHAN APPROACHED HSUEH FENG. FENG KNEW HIS CIRCUMSTANCES WERE RIPE, SO HE SUDDENLY GOT UP, HELD HIM TIGHT, AND SAID, "WHAT IS IT?" OPENING UP, KU SHAN WAS COMPLETELY ENLIGHTENED -- HE EVEN FORGOT HIS COMPREHENDING MIND AND JUST RAISED HIS HAND AND WAVED, NOTHING MORE. FENG SAID, "WILL YOU EXPRESS SOME PRINCIPLE?"
HAVING LEFT THE FIFTH PATRIARCH'S PLACE, HUI NENG TRAVELED SOUTH FOR TWO MONTHS, AND HAD REACHED THE TA YU RANGE. HE WAS PURSUED BY THE MONK HUI MING, WHO WAS ORIGINALLY A GENERAL, ACCOMPANIED BY SEVERAL HUNDRED MEN, WHO WANTED TO SEIZE THE ROBE AND BOWL (EMBLEMATIC OF SUCCESSION TO THE PATRIARCHS). MING WAS THE FIRST TO OVERTAKE HIM. THE SIXTH PATRIARCH THREW DOWN THE ROBE AND BOWL ON A ROCK AND SAID, "THIS ROBE SIGNIFIES FAITH: HOW CAN IT BE TAKEN BY FORCE?" MING TRIED TO PICK UP THE ROBE AND BOWL, BUT WAS UNABLE TO MOVE THEM. AT THAT POINT HE SAID, "I HAVE COME FOR THE DHARMA, NOT FOR THE ROBE." THE PATRIARCH SAID, "SINCE YOU'VE COME FOR THE DHARMA, YOU SHOULD PUT TO REST ALL YOUR MOTIVATIONS, AND DON'T GIVE RISE TO A SINGLE THOUGHT, AND I WILL EXPLAIN FOR YOU." AFTER A SILENCE, HE SAID, "WITHOUT THINKING OF GOOD, AND WITHOUT THINKING OF EVIL, AT JUST SUCH A TIME, WHICH IS YOUR ORIGINAL FACE?" AT THESE WORDS HUI MING WAS GREATLY ENLIGHTENED. HE ALSO ASKED, "BESIDES THE INTIMATE WORDS AND MEANING THAT STRUCK HOME OF A MOMENT AGO, IS THERE ANY FURTHER INTIMATE MESSAGE?" THE PATRIARCH SAID, "IF IT WERE SAID TO YOU, IT WOULDN'T BE INTIMATE. IF YOU TURN AROUND AND REFLECT, WHAT'S INTIMATE IS IN YOU." MING SAID, "THOUGH I WAS AT HUANG MEI, I NEVER REALLY HAD INSIGHT INTO MY OWN FACE. NOW, ENCOUNTERING YOUR INSTRUCTION, I AM LIKE A MAN DRINKING WATER WHO KNOWS FOR HIMSELF WHETHER IT'S COLD OR WARM."
"JUST KNOW HOW TO BE A BUDDHA: DON'T WORRY THAT A BUDDHA WON'T KNOW HOW TO TALK." SINCE ANCIENT TIMES, PEOPLE WHO HAVE ATTAINED THE PATH, SINCE THEY ARE FULL THEMSELVES, HAVE PUT FORTH THEIR OWN SURPLUS TO RESPOND TO POTENTIALS AND RECEIVE BEINGS. THEY ARE LIKE A BRIGHT MIRROR ON ITS STAND, LIKE A BRIGHT JEWEL IN THE PALM OF THE HAND; WHEN AN OUTSIDER COMES, AN OUTSIDER APPEARS, AND WHEN A NATIVE COMES, A NATIVE APPEARS. AND IT'S NOT INTENTIONAL: IF IT WERE INTENTIONAL, THEN THERE WOULD BE A REAL DOCTRINE TO GIVE TO PEOPLE. YOU WANT TO BE CLEAR.</p>


Ta Hui still continues with the meaning of release. The question is so fundamental that however often it has to be repeated it will never be said completely.


There are things which you can only indicate, and the indication is always capable of being misunderstood -- most probably it will be misunderstood -- because the indication is only an arrow. Unless you know to look in that direction, unless you are aware that the arrow is pointing to something beyond itself, there is every possibility you may cling to the arrow itself.


Because of this complexity, things which were said for the freedom of man have become his imprisonment. What are your churches, your temples and your synagogues except prisons of your soul? What are your holy scriptures? They were meant to be arrows pointing beyond words, but even the so-called learned people cling to the words and forget completely that those words are only arrows; they are only pointing towards something which is wordless -- something which they cannot say, but they can point to. But they are only fingers pointing to the moon.


Hence it has to be again and again hammered on your conditioned mind from different aspects what is the meaning of release. Ta Hui gives you a few examples of when the release did happen. And it happened absolutely irrationally; there was no necessity for it to happen -- except that the disciple was ripe and the master's insight was so clear that he did not miss the moment. He struck, he slapped, he shouted, he did something, and suddenly there was an opening -- the clouds disappeared.


ONE DAY, KU SHAN APPROACHED HSUEH FENG. FENG KNEW HIS CIRCUMSTANCES WERE RIPE. When a woman is pregnant she knows she is pregnant, and when the child is nine months old the mother knows that the time has come to receive a new guest in the world. There are no indications from the child, but the very ripening has its own impact. In the East when the mango groves are full of ripe mangos, passing by the road, suddenly you are aware that the whole air is full of the sweetness of the mangos.


Scientists have been working for almost half a century on bees, because they suspect that bees know a certain kind of language. It is very exciting to find out what kind of language bees use; it will open up a tremendously new area of communication. One bee goes miles in a certain direction for no reason at all -- but she finds the place where flowers are blossoming, and she goes directly to those flowers, as if she is following a map.


Once she has found the flowers she returns, and she dances in a certain way before the whole crowd of bees who are watching the dance. The dance has all the indications -- in which direction, how far away you will find the flowers -- and suddenly thousands of bees start moving towards that direction, without any failure, without going in any other direction.


In the dance of the bee there are indications which have not yet been deciphered. For half a century work has been done, but it is very difficult because we know a language, but we don't know how a dance... and the same kind of dance with small differences can give different meanings. If there are no ripe flowers the dance will be almost the same, but with such a slight difference that only bees can decipher it; scientists have not been able.... It is certain that there is a difference because no bee moves in that direction; they will wait, and tomorrow again the bee will go.


Certain bees are the messenger bees, the postmen. Bees have a hierarchy; there are soldiers, there are postmen, there are laborers, and there is a queen, and they all do different kinds of work. If there is danger... the same dance but with a slight difference.


Between the master and the disciple something happens so that when the disciple is ripe, he knows he is ripe and his master knows he is ripe. This is the time to allow him a breakthrough. There are thousands of tremendously beautiful incidents. This one is so simple but so pregnant.


FENG KNEW HIS CIRCUMSTANCES. If you are aware, how can you miss knowing it? Feng knew Kushan was ripe... SO HE SUDDENLY GOT UP, HELD HIM TIGHT, AND SAID, "WHAT IS IT?" And there was an opening: OPENING UP, KU SHAN WAS COMPLETELY ENLIGHTENED. Nothing special happened; just the master knew, the disciple knew, that something had come to a climax. And the master got hold of the disciple tightly and said, "What is it?" It is not a question to be answered; it is a question that opens up a new dimension in the disciple.


OPENING UP, KU SHAN WAS COMPLETELY ENLIGHTENED. HE EVEN FORGOT HIS COMPREHENDING MIND. The experience was so great, the splendor was so overwhelming, that he even forgot to show his reverence to the master, or to say some right words to express his gratitude. HE JUST RAISED HIS HAND AND WAVED. This waving of the hand is a mute expression that "I have got it! You got me right in the moment -- it has happened!"


HE JUST RAISED HIS HAND AND WAVED, NOTHING MORE. FENG SAID, "WILL YOU EXPRESS SOME PRINCIPLE?" But there is absolute silence, the story has ended. The master's question -- "You have waved your hand, that's right. But will you express some principle that you have understood, experienced?" -- the disciple has not answered. There is no answer! He must have stood before the master, being himself the answer -- his silence, his joy, his sudden opening... His crazy gesture of waving the hand simply indicates that it is beyond the mind and beyond his comprehension... what principle? -- there is only silence and no principle.


It is something rare; only a Zen story can end in such a way. The master asks the question, and the disciple remains silent -- that is the answer. If he had spoken he would have got a good hit, because his speaking would have shown that he had missed, that he could not manage to open himself entirely, that he had still remained in the mind.


But his silence shows that now there is no question, no answer; there is no principle, no philosophy. There is no you, no me, but only a total serenity, an eternal silence which has never been disturbed.


These are not stories; stories don't end in such a way. This is an actual incident. The silence is being understood by the master. Nothing is said, but everything is heard.


A second incident... just giving you different aspects, from different doors. HAVING LEFT THE FIFTH PATRIARCH'S PLACE, HUI NENG TRAVELED SOUTH FOR TWO MONTHS, AND HAD REACHED THE TA YU RANGE. HE WAS PURSUED BY THE MONK HUI MING, WHO WAS ORIGINALLY A GENERAL, ACCOMPANIED BY SEVERAL HUNDRED MEN, WHO WANTED TO SEIZE THE ROBE AND THE BOWL (EMBLEMATIC OF SUCCESSION TO THE PATRIARCHS). In Zen, every patriarch gives his robe and his bowl to his successor, and naturally there is great competition and human frailties, jealousies....


This man, Hui Ming, was far more learned, in every way far more cultured. He had renounced the great post of general, and had become a disciple; he had practiced for a long time. But the master chose a very strange man, Hui Neng, to be his successor. In his monastery there were at least twelve thousand monks, and not a single one would have thought that Hui Neng was going to become the successor.


Hui Neng's only accomplishment was that since he had come, twenty years before, he had been cleaning the rice for the twelve thousand monks from the early morning till late at night. For twenty years he had not done anything else. He had never been in any of the discourses of the master, he had never read any scripture -- in fact he was illiterate. He was a villager, but a man of tremendous determination.


The day he got initiated, Hui Neng asked the master, "What am I supposed to do?"


The master said, "Go to the mess, clean rice and never again come back to me" -- and he never came back again. Twenty years of silently waiting... because the master had said, "If it is needed, I will come to you. But you should never again show your face to me. You simply clean the rice from morning till night, then go to sleep; again clean the rice, then go to sleep."


You can understand, twenty years just cleaning rice and going to sleep, his mind became silent. No meditation was needed. He never went to any discourse -- there was no time. Nobody talked to him because he was thought to be of the lowest category, just a poor villager who knows nothing, and he never asked anything of anybody. People passed by him as if he was not there. He was taken for granted.


The day came for the master to leave his body, and he said, "Before I leave my body I want to choose my successor. The way I want to choose is this: whoever knows the right answer should come in the night and write it on my door; if the answer is right, he will receive my robe and my bowl."


This ex-general, Hui Ming, was certainly the most important person of the whole following of the master, and everybody thought that he would be the winner. So he went in the night and he wrote on the door, "No-mind is the answer." But he was so afraid of the master -- afraid that if it is found to be wrong he is going to get a good beating -- that he did not sign it. He thought, "If it is right then I will declare that I have written it; if it is wrong then it is better to keep silent."


In the morning when the master woke up he said, "Who is that idiot?" Hearing this, Hui Ming escaped from the monastery -- somebody may inform the master because a few people had got the idea... they were looking out for who was going to write. In fact it was public knowledge that it was Hui Ming!


Two monks, after taking their food, were just passing by Hui Neng and discussing, saying, "The master is too hard. The answer seems to be right: "no-mind" is the whole philosophy of Gautam Buddha. What more can be said?" People had completely forgotten that Hui Neng even speaks; for twenty years he had not spoken a single word to anybody. He simply did his work, would go to sleep, wake up, start his work again. That day, listening to those two monks saying that the answer seems to be right and the master is too hard, he laughed. Those two monks stopped and they said, "Why are you laughing?"


He said, "Whoever wrote that is an idiot." This was exactly what the master had said, "Who is the idiot who has spoiled my door?" Those monks could not believe it, but they informed the master that a man of the name of Hui Neng, whom he had sent twenty years before to the mess, had said exactly the same thing: "Whoever wrote this is an idiot."


The master said, "I know. He is the only man... I was hoping that he would come and write the answer. But I forgot completely that in the first place he is non-ambitious; in the second place he cannot write, he is illiterate; in the third place I had prohibited him: 'Whenever the time comes I will come to you, you have to remain in the work I have given to you. Never show your face.'"


In the middle of the night the master came, woke up Hui Neng, gave him the bowl and his robe and said, "Now escape, because you are a simple fellow. There is great competition, and there are dangerous people -- that man Hui Ming has been a general, he is a warrior. They will try to snatch away the robe and the bowl, so you simply escape as far away as possible."


Hui Neng said, "But I don't know anything. Moreover, I have not committed any crime. Why should you make me your successor? Why can't I be left to live peacefully? You can find... so many people are eager, wanting to be the successor, why are you bothering me?"


But the master said, "These are the reasons why I am bothering you: a man who is not interested at all is the right man. A man who has no ambitions is worthy. A man who can refuse the highest stage in the tradition of Zen of being a patriarch, a master of masters..."


Hui Neng still tried to persuade him, "Just let me clean rice and don't disturb my sleep! I am tired and in the morning I have to start my work again, and just think of twelve thousand monks and their rice..."


The master said, "Stop all this! If people become aware that I have chosen you they will kill you. Just take this bowl and this robe and run away, because tomorrow morning I am going to die, and before that I want you to be miles away." That's how Hui Neng was chosen to be the successor.


Strange people... and strange are their stories, but of tremendous importance. This Hui Neng was followed by Hui Ming, the general, with thousands of people, to catch hold of him and forcibly take away the bowl and the robe so that Hui Ming could declare himself the master. This is the background to the story.


Ming was the first to overtake Hui Neng, and there were many others also following. THE SIXTH PATRIARCH THREW DOWN THE ROBE AND BOWL ON A ROCK AND SAID, "THIS ROBE SIGNIFIES FAITH: HOW CAN IT BE TAKEN BY FORCE?" Faith cannot be taken by force. Faith grows only in the climate of love. Faith is the highest flowering; it cannot be taken away by force.


"So this is the robe and this is the bowl. But remember, THIS ROBE SIGNIFIES FAITH, and you are only a general -- you know the ways of force, you don't know the ways of love. HOW CAN IT BE TAKEN BY FORCE? If you can take it by force, take it."


MING TRIED TO PICK UP THE ROBE AND BOWL, BUT WAS UNABLE TO MOVE THEM. It may seem to be fictitious, but in the deepest experience of my own self I don't think it is fictitious. I have my own explanation of why it happened... Hui Neng was a man of peace and silence, a man without any desires, and when such a man speaks, he speaks with authority, his words are pure power. And when he said, "This bowl and this robe represent faith, and faith cannot be taken by force," his very statement would have weakened Hui Ming.


Hui Ming knew perfectly well that he does not have faith, he knows only what force is. It must have weakened his whole will. It is not a miracle; it is a simple psychological fact. He tried to pick it up... but he must have tried knowing perfectly well that he could not pick it up.


There is a place near a beautiful river, Narmada, where there was a temple of Shiva. Outside every temple of Shiva is his bodyguard, the bull; the bull sits outside the temple. There is a story that underneath the bull at that particular temple -- it is an ancient temple -- there is a little space which you can pass through... but only if you have faith.


I had gone there with a friend who was a professor -- full of doubts, although he was not too fat. When I told him, "Try to pass through this small space underneath the bull," he said, "I don't see any problem. Because I am not a fat man, I can pass."


I said to him, "You cannot pass, because unless you have faith... It is not a question of being fat or being thin; I have seen fat people passing through it, and I have seen thin people getting caught."


He said, "It is all nonsense, I will show you." But even while he was saying it, deep inside he was trembling. A crowd gathered, which made it even more fearful, and he was caught in the middle. He started shouting -- "Help me!"


I said, "In questions of faith, nobody can help. Try your logic, try your reason, try your arguments." And people were laughing! They were laughing because he was so thin, why has he got caught? He just lost his nerve. He knew perfectly well he had no faith, he had no trust, he was full of doubts -- he is doubt and nothing else. He knew perfectly well in the depths of his heart that he could not pass.


I had to pull him out -- of course from the back side, "because," I said, "from the front I cannot, because I cannot go against the rule." So I had to pull him by his legs, backwards. He looked very strange.


He said, "I can see that the space is enough, but something inside me simply gave way. I simply lost my nerve." I myself went through that small space, and I was at least twice the weight of the professor.


There are things which may look like fictions if you don't understand man and his psychology. To me this is not a fiction, this is a historical fact. It must have happened. The words of Hui Neng must have created the atmosphere, the climate, such that Hui Ming lost his willpower. He tried, but he had no force. He suddenly became impotent.
<p class="sutra">MING TRIED TO PICK UP THE ROBE AND BOWL, BUT WAS UNABLE TO MOVE THEM. AT THAT POINT HE SAID, "I HAVE COME FOR THE DHARMA, NOT FOR THE ROBE." THE PATRIARCH SAID, "SINCE YOU'VE COME FOR THE DHARMA, YOU SHOULD PUT TO REST ALL YOUR MOTIVATIONS, AND DON'T GIVE RISE TO A SINGLE THOUGHT, AND I WILL EXPLAIN FOR YOU." AFTER A SILENCE, HE SAID, "WITHOUT THINKING OF GOOD, AND WITHOUT THINKING OF EVIL, AT JUST SUCH A TIME, WHICH IS YOUR ORIGINAL FACE?"</p>


When there is no movement of thought, desire, motivation -- at such a moment you are, in your original purity. And to know this original face is to know all.


AT THESE WORDS, HUI MING WAS GREATLY ENLIGHTENED. HE ALSO ASKED, "BESIDES THE INTIMATE WORDS AND MEANING THAT STRUCK HOME OF A MOMENT AGO, IS THERE ANY FURTHER INTIMATE MESSAGE?" THE PATRIARCH SAID, "IF IT WERE SAID TO YOU, IT WOULDN'T BE INTIMATE" -- because words create distance.
The intimate is not a communication.
The intimate is a transmission from heart to heart...
In silence, in love, in peace.


Nothing is said, nothing is heard, but everything is understood... that is intimate.


"IF IT WERE SAID TO YOU, IT WOULD NOT BE INTIMATE. IF YOU TURN AROUND AND REFLECT, WHAT'S INTIMATE IS IN YOU" -- it is not outside you. You are the most intimate to yourself; nobody can be closer to you than yourself. However close somebody may come to you, that closeness is still a distance. Only you are intimate.


MING SAID, "THOUGH I WAS AT HUANG MEI, I NEVER REALLY HAD INSIGHT" -- he recognized that although he had been in the monastery for years studying, disciplining himself, he had never had any real insight -- "INTO MY OWN FACE. NOW, ENCOUNTERING YOUR INSTRUCTION, I AM LIKE A MAN DRINKING WATER WHO KNOWS FOR HIMSELF WHETHER IT'S COLD OR WARM."
"JUST KNOW HOW TO BE A BUDDHA: DON'T WORRY THAT A BUDDHA WON'T KNOW HOW TO TALK." SINCE ANCIENT TIMES, PEOPLE WHO HAVE ATTAINED THE PATH, SINCE THEY ARE FULL THEMSELVES, HAVE PUT FORTH THEIR OWN SURPLUS TO RESPOND TO POTENTIALS AND RECEIVE BEINGS. THEY ARE LIKE A BRIGHT MIRROR ON ITS STAND, LIKE A BRIGHT JEWEL IN THE PALM OF THE HAND; WHEN AN OUTSIDER COMES, AN OUTSIDER APPEARS, AND WHEN A NATIVE COMES, A NATIVE APPEARS. AND IT'S NOT INTENTIONAL: IF IT WERE INTENTIONAL, THEN THERE WOULD BE A REAL DOCTRINE TO GIVE TO PEOPLE. YOU WANT TO BE CLEAR.


These are the two ways... whether you want to be clear or you want to be clever. However clever you become you will remain ignorant, and you may know nothing, but if you are clear -- a mirror without any dust -- you will reflect the very essence of existence.


There is a strange story that before Hui Neng died, many years after this incident, he chose Hui Ming to be his successor. What Ming could not get by force, he got by becoming non-ambitious, meditative. When Hui Neng asked him, "Now the time has come for me to depart and, Hui Ming, you have been so ambitious to be the patriarch, you may have the bowl and the robe which you could not take with all your force. Are you ready now?", Hui Ming said, "I am no more interested. There are many others."


Hui Neng, the illiterate, became one of the greatest Zen masters, just by his simplicity, just by his innocent ways. He attracted many disciples of great qualities, and he had many followers who could have been chosen as his successor. But first he told Hui Ming, "You were so desirous; I wanted to give it to you at that very moment, but it was not within my capacity: neither I could give it, nor was it in your capacity to take it. But now I can see you are ripe.


And Hui Ming is reported to have said, "It is a strange game. When I wanted it I could not have it; now I have not the slightest desire, and you are offering me... Can't you find somebody else?"
Hui Neng said, "These are the indications of a right successor."


Zen is the path of desirelessness. There is nothing to attain, there is no goal to reach. You are simply to relax, be at ease, and you will find that you have always been there, where you wanted to be. You have never left the Garden of Eden. The Christian story is wrong.


I have been talking about the Christian story from so many different angles... it is a beautiful story and certainly has tremendous potential. This aspect has also to be remembered, that wherever you are, you are still in the Garden of Eden. It is not even in the capacity of God to throw you out -- where will he throw you? -- because everywhere is the Garden of Eden. I am always wondering why not a single Christian theologian has raised the question in two thousand years: God drove Adam and Eve from the Garden of Eden, but where did he drive them to? Is there something outside of existence?


Everything is within, there is nothing without. There are no boundaries to reality -- you cannot be thrown out of reality. It is such a simple fact: you are still in the Garden of Eden, you have just fallen asleep.


Your sleep consists of your mind, of your desires, your dreams, your ambitions, your motivations. Once you drop all this crap, suddenly you wake up and you will find yourself in the Garden of Eden. And the Garden of Eden does not belong to God, it is not his monopoly. It belongs to everyone, to every living entity, because God is only a collective name for all the consciousnesses that exist in the world; God is not some person.


The Christian story has made God very ugly. If I have to write the story again, the first instructions I will give to Adam and Eve -- and those are the instructions I am giving to you -- will be: Eat the fruit of wisdom, eat the fruit of eternal life. You belong to the ultimate consciousness, you belong to deathlessness.
You are a buddha.
You just have to be shaken up.


It is not that you have to do many austerities and knock on the doors and beg and pray: "God, Father, please open the door. I will never eat the fruit, I will never look at it." You are sitting under the tree. Just open your eyes, and wisdom is yours, and eternal life is yours. And these are not two trees...


The story is wrong on many points. First, a God who is a father cannot prevent you from eternal life, and cannot prevent you from being wise. Secondly, wisdom and eternal life are not two; they are two aspects of the same experience.
I declare to you; this is the Garden of Eden.


If you want to sleep a little more, there is no harm. There is no need to be in a hurry either. Sleep well; just stop dreaming... and you will wake up. It is the dreams which go on keeping you asleep.
In other words, I can define meditation as a non-dreaming consciousness.

Okay, Maneesha?

Yes, Osho.
			

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> Copyright 1964-1990 Osho (Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh)
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