---
section: Library
booktitle: "Press Conferences"
booktype: "Discourses"
bookcode: "PRESS"
dategiven: "24 September 1985 pm"
place: " in Sanai Grove"
chapternum: "Chapter #4"
chaptertitle: "None"
acode: "8509245"
shorttitle: "PRESS04"
audio: "Yes"
video: "Yes"
esttime: "101mins"
displaytitle: "Press Conferences: Chapter #4"
---

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> [!info]
> Note
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[NOTE: This is a typed tape transcript and has not been edited or published, as of August 1992. It is for reference use only. The interviewers' have been omitted where not relevant to Osho's words]
INTERVIEW WITH JIM HYDE, CHANNEL TWO; SCOTT MILLER, KGW TV, PORTLAND; SWAMI ANAND SUBHUTI, THE RAJNEESH TIMES; WALDEN KIRSCH, KGW TV, PORTLAND; SWAMI ANAND VIDEHA, FOR "LATIN-AMERICA COURIER", ITALY; MA VIREN FOR "LOTO-PAYO" (LEUROPAYON?), ITALY.
ISABEL: "OSHO, I HAVE TOLD THE PRESS THAT YOU WILL FIRST MAKE A STATEMENT AND THEN THEY COULD ASK QUESTIONS."


OSHO: I welcome you all. I had to give you the trouble to come here because there has been FBI people, State Police officers, Wasco county police, Attorney General's office people, to investigate the case against Sheela and her fascist gang. I offered them my own interview, four times they gave the appointment, and all the four times they canceled it. There seem to be a certain conspiracy going on. I want to make that conspiracy open and available to the public.


We were cooperating fully. Our police, our sannyasins, were going and revealing facts concerning all kinds of crime that have been committed while I was in isolation and silence. It was really strange that they should not take my interview. They should have taken my interview first. I represent the heart of my whole commune. I live for these people and I will die for these people. Rather than asking me for an interview, they went on postponing and canceling appointments. And the reason was that they were trying to protect the criminals. They were not taking any step against the criminals.


And they were trying to persuade people to betray the commune. They were giving as a bribe, that "We will give you immunity." We were supported them, we were revealing everything on our own accord. We wanted the criminals to be punished. But behind the screen was Attorney General and he was trying a totally different thing. I have known dirty politicians, but not so dirty as this man.


All kinds of crimes have been committed, murder, attempts to murder many other people, efforts to poison the water system of Dalles, the whole city of innocent people who have done no wrong to you.


Sheela was persuading one of the pilot, that he should take bombs in the airplane and crash it on the Wasco county office and before it crashes, jump out in a parachute to save himself. Because he refused it, as a punishment and as a safety measure that he does not reveal it to anybody else, he was sent to Germany in a very small commune where he was useless, because there is no airport and the commune has no airplanes. What can they do of a pilot? And he was our best pilot. As he heard the news that Sheela and her gang has escaped, he immediately phoned. He has come back and he revealed his story, that "This is what I was asked to do. Because I refused. It was not only a question of my life. It would have destroyed the Wasco county office and it may have destroyed many other houses surrounding it." The quantity of bombs was so much.


We were trying to help FBI and all these other agencies. Why they were afraid to take my interview? The reason was, they wanted to find few people who can protect the criminals and can indicate false names, innocent people, that these are the real criminals, so that the community can by destroyed. One of the FBI person was being heard by sannyasins, he was saying, that "We are going at least to imprison five hundred sannyasins." All those sannyasins who are very essential for the life of the commune, to cripple it. They were not interested at all about the crimes.


One of the street people was murdered by Sheela because she has imported special drugs in tons for all those street people, to keep them drugged till the election day. So whatsoever she says to them, they will do it like a robot, almost in a hallucinatory state. This man by accident was drugged twice. He died on the spot. They simply threw his body out of Rancho Rajneesh without any compassion, humanity, without any feeling what they are doing. The police had found the body, but they could not find even the man's address. He may have come from New York or from anywhere in America. And street people don't have address. They could not figure out what is his name, they could not figure out how he has died, whether he has been murdered or drugged himself too much.


Just now people are coming, because the fear, the terror of Sheela and her gang is finished, they know now they can say the truth. I wanted to cooperate with the government, with the law, but the government has its own designs. Its design is to use the excuse of Sheela's crime who has already gone out of country with twenty co-conspirators. A good chance for them in the name of those twenty people who are out of country -- just blame innocent people and force them into jail.


Not taking my interview was essential to do this, because I was going to reveal everything. First they said, "You cannot record it." I insisted that "It has to be recorded, because in the court you may change." It was a strange situation, as if I was the interrogator and they were the criminals. You cannot take a video tape of it. I insisted.


I said, "We will not release it to the public, we can give you the guarantee, written, but the video will be taken, because we know that you are not worthy of any trust. This video will be a proof that things are totally different and you are presenting before the court different people."


Sheela and her group has bugged my room, my caretaker's room, the new president Hasya's whole house, six rooms, my ex-secretary Laxmi's room, the whole hotel, all the rooms. Even the FBI experts said, that Nixon is left far behind. They have done such a sophisticated job. He said that, "For one bugging five years of jail." And this woman has bugged so many places that even one thousand years will be not enough! You have solid proofs in your hands. They have found machines in Sheela's room that all telephones from the commune, going outside or coming in were taped, which is very criminal. It is interference into the freedom of the individual and his privacy. Now what solid proofs they need? We have tapes which we have presented to them, we have the mechanism which was being used, we have people who are ready to confess that they were part in it and who others were part in it. But it seemed as if they were not interested in it. Their interest was somewhere else.


One woman came up and said, that, "She does not know exactly, but she suspects that the house belonging to the planning office in Wasco county was burnt by Sheela. Because Sheela told her that at a particular place late in the night you stand there with a car, two sannyasins not in sannyasin clothes will come to you. You need not ask anything, simply take them in and bring them back to Rajneeshpuram. She was a little worried and concerned that what is the matter, what is going on, what is the secret in it? Why they should not be wearing red clothes and why such secrecy? And next day she came to know that the planning office of the Wasco county has been burnt. Now it is very simple. She can indicate those two persons who have escaped with the twenty in Sheela's gang. Sheela has taken her also in her gang so that no proof is left behind. But she felt so guilty that from Seattle she turned back. She said, "I am not going. I am going back to the commune." And she has come back to the commune.


All these things. In Sheela's house literature has been found: How to Murder, How to Kill. Literature on all kinds of poisons. Three persons have been poisoned. My own milk was being poisoned slowly every day. And only now the poor sannyasin who looks after the cows has opened his mouth, that "Every night Puja used to come to mix something. I was not aware that this is poison. I thought it is something herbal, must be for your health." Certainly it was for my health!


Seeing all these things I became aware of one thing that has happened in India. And now I am absolutely certain that Sheela murdered her own first husband. He was sick. He had cancer of lungs and the doctors had said that he cannot live more than two years. When he came to me he was really in despair, death was so close. I said to him, that "Death comes to everybody. You are fortunate that you know when it is coming. You have some uniqueness about your death. You can use these two years in such a way that only your body will die and you will live forever."


And he started meditating, and a strange phenomenon happened. Two years passed, four years passed, six years passed. He came back to America. He was American Jew. He went to the doctors, they could not believe. They thought that he must be dead by now, long ago. They said, "It is something miraculous. You are not supposed to live! What have you been doing."


He said, "I have been meditating and I am feeling healthier and I am getting better."


But once in a while he used to have attacks and when he had the attack, oxygen has to be given to him. Sheela was continuously harassing him. All this I have come to know now. People who had lived in the same house in India have revealed to me that Sheela was harassing him continuously. And because he was sick she was having a love affair with another man. And that was really disgusting. Her husband was dying in the same room and she will bring the other man to make love in the same room in front the husband and naturally he will throw a tantrum. And one day it became so much that she stopped the oxygen. She took out the tube. The poor man died in immense suffering and torture, suffocating.


I did hear the rumor, even in India, that something in mysterious about the death. But there was no solid proof. The man was already burnt. There was no witness. But now seeing Sheela's all these acts here I feel certain that she has killed her husband too.


When I left India Sheela had burnt two bare houses just to show that all my literature has been burned by somebody. Nobody would have told this if Sheela was here. People were afraid that they will be killed or thrown out of the commune. Many have been thrown out of the commune. Whoever was a rebel was condemned as negative and he has to leave. And because I was in isolation and in silence and I had no connection except Sheela, so even if people wanted to inform me about something it was impossible. They could not phone. Every phone was taped.


All the guards on my house have just revealed that they were told not to have any contact with the people who lived with me, my physician, my dentist, my seamstress, my cleaners... almost twenty people lived in the house... my kitchen people, my gardeners. The guards were instructed, that "You have not to talk to anybody, you have not even to smile at anybody, you have not to see eye to eye to anybody. Even if they wave you are not to answer." And that's how it has been going on. And it seems she had put those guards saying to them that they are for my safety.


But just today all the keys of my house have been found in Sheela's room. Now what those keys were doing in her room? She has made a lock into my sitting room which connects the bedroom. I sleep alone there and she wanted to have the key from the outside. The lock is from the outside and she wanted to have the key. It was only because of my caretaker. Her insistence that the key cannot be given to anybody because things that have come to light, if she can poison my milk, if she can bug my room, if she can try to kill my physician three times, she could have tried to kill me. And the best way would have been any night. Guards were hers, I don't know even their names, I don't know even their faces, because they are on the roof, I cannot see them. She could have entered into my room any moment, given me an injection. It was so easy. She wanted to keep that thing available.


One should be wondering why she would like to kill me. Because three and half years being in full power she became a power maniac. Now her only fear was, if I start speaking again, then her face from the television screen will disappear. Then she will not be a celebrity. Then from radios her voice will disappear, from newspapers her name will disappear and it is really difficult for someone whose ego has become blown big, then suddenly to become nobody.


She was nobody. She was just a waitress in a hotel in America before she came to me. Here she saw power in her hands, millions of dollars in her hands. We have put two hundred million dollars to create the commune. She has stolen money out of it. Her old secretary is dying with cancer in California. Death sometimes makes people reveal truth. She has written me a letter yesterday, that Sheela has stolen forty-three million dollars from European communes which were bound to reach here, but they never came here. They went into a account in Switzerland. When you get so much money, so much power, and my people love me and she was using my name for everything.


Even very intelligent people proved very gullible for the simple reason, she found their weakness, their love for me. She will simply say it is for Osho's sake, it is for Osho's security, it is how Osho wants it. And people were ready to do it. She exploited the whole situation and committed all kinds of crime.


They were trying to culture AIDS virus. One wonders for what. Two persons from the commune who have been found by Sheela's assistant, Puja, who is a medical person, as positive confirmed AIDS patients... when Sheela left we let them tested again outside. Both are negative. Strange, where the virus has disappeared? It has disappeared with those twenty people? It seems their blood before sending for test was mixed with AIDS virus. And the reason seems to be that those two persons were just experimental the way scientists use guinea pigs, rats, they were using human beings. Perhaps there was a desire that if they cannot rule the commune, then they will destroy it.


Just the other day in Patanjali lake, five hundred big fishes, beautiful fish, suddenly died. It seems poison has been dumped there. Otherwise there seems to be no reason for those fish to die simultaneously.


I wanted to say all these things to FBI and all other state government agencies and wanted them to ask me, interrogate me, so I can go into details. But they are not interested in the criminals. Their interest is that somehow the criminals has escaped, it is good. Now find people who have done small things, for example, this girl who has driven two people who burned the planning office, now give her immunity and make her say that who were those two people, any two people they choose.


That's what they are trying to do with K.D. K.D. has not gone with Sheela's group, he is hiding in California and trying to make a deal. He is a politician. He is trying to make a deal with the Attorney General, that "If you give me immunity, then whatever you say, I will say."


I would like the press to support this small minority against the whole dirty political regime. Help so that real criminals can be caught and should not be protected and make it sure that no innocent people are harassed. That is the desire of the Attorney General. That's why they never wanted to interview me. I wanted them first to interview me before the press so the whole public knows. What is the fear? I should be afraid. Why you should be afraid? They refused that, they refused video, they refused taking a tape and finally, they refused that they don't want to take my interview at all. And all this time they were continuously enquiring the Attorney General on the phone, for everything. To cancel the interview or not, to let them have it on the video or not.


It is your duty and responsibility to expose this dirty state of affairs. We are ready to support the law and the constitution and we are ready to help them catch all those twenty people, because we are keeping an eye on them, we know where they are. We have sannyasins all over the world. When they were in Zurich, Zurich sannyasins were looking after them. When they went into Germany, German sannyasins were looking after them, watching. Now they are in France. Wherever they will go, my people are there. But FBI does not seem to be interested even to inform the Interpol that these people have committed crimes, they should be brought to America.


Perhaps if Sheela comes back... or perhaps FBI people are already making deals with those criminals there, that they are not criminals. They are capable of making deals and can give them immunity and then any innocent person can be imprisoned, for ten years, for twenty years, for his whole life.


I have called the press just to make it clear to the people that it should not be allowed to happen. And when we are helping and cooperating, they don't want our cooperation. Just now I have heard that because I have called the press conference and I am exposing them, they are packing their suitcases and they will escape. Strange, you belong to the federal intelligence department, you belong to the state police, you belong to the county police, such cowards. You cannot face a press conference. Rather than packing their suits they should have been here, because they have been here for seven days. And we have been their hosts and we have been helping them in every way. We gave them our hospitality and they are giving us their criminality.


It is somehow a psychological fact that the criminals and the people who belong to the police are not very different kind of people. Just criminals employed by the government become FBI, KGB, and criminals who are unemployed, those poor people serve in jails or electrocuted or given death sentences, but I think both belong to the same category of mind.
If you have any questions, you can ask.
INTERVIEW WITH JIM HYDE, CHANNEL TWO.
QUESTION: HOW WOULD YOU CONVINCE THE PEOPLE WHO WILL SEE AND HERE THIS VIDEOTAPE THAT YOU ARE TELLING THE TRUTH AND SHEELA IS LYING?


ANSWER: Simple. Why she has escaped? If she is not a criminal, she should have been here and faced me. She did not even come to say goodbye to me. People who don't commit crime don't escape like that. And all the twenty people are involved in all these cases. So tell her, if she is innocent and I am criminal, then face me, just stand before me. She thinks she is brave, so tell her to be brave and come back. Why you are escaping here and there, hiding in Black Forest in Germany. What is that is going to do? How long you can hide? And if the police is not going to take the action, then my people will take the action! We can wait for few days and see what these idiots do. Otherwise we are capable enough to bring all those twenty back here.
Q: WOULD YOU RATHER THE INVESTIGATORS, WHO'VE BEEN INVITED, GO AWAY NOW? HAVE YOU GIVEN UP ON THE SYSTEM?


A: First they have to take my interview before the press. Now that is an absolute condition on which there will be no compromise. Before I was ready to give the interview in privacy and keep the video private till the case is over. But now, no.
INTERVIEW WITH SCOTT MILLER, KGW TV, PORTLAND.
Q: THE PERSON WHO IS BEING INVESTIGATED IS NOT USUALLY ALLOWED TO RECORD OR VIDEOTAPE THOSE INTERVIEWS AND CERTAINLY, THESE INVESTIGATIONS NEVER OCCUR IN FRONT OF THE PRESS. WHY SHOULD YOU BE DIFFERENT?


A: This is not an ordinary crime. It is a series of criminal acts and it has been committed in my name! So I have every authority to force the investigators, because my name has been used, misused. Advantage has been taken of my name. And when I am willing, what they are going to lose? Unless there is some conspiracy that they will not be able to manage if my statements become public. But it does not matter, if they don't make it public, I will make them public. I am making them public. Who can prevent me?
Q: ARE YOU SAYING THAT YOU HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO TELL THE INVESTIGATORS HOW TO INVESTIGATE? OR TO TELL THE INVESTIGATORS WHO TO ARREST?


A: Certainly. The government is the servant of the people! They are not our masters.
Q: YOU SAID THAT YOU WON'T TALK UNDER CERTAIN CONDITIONS, ARE YOU STILL RECOMMENDING THAT YOUR SANNYASINS COOPERATE WITH THE LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES?


A: They are cooperating.
Q: DO YOU WANT THEM TO KEEP COOPERATING?


A: This is cooperation.
Q: TOMORROW, DO YOU WANT YOUR SANNYASINS TO KEEP TALKING TO THE INVESTIGATORS?


A: I will not. It is finished. Cooperation is finished! And if they don't pack now, we will pack them out.
INTERVIEW WITH SWAMI ANAND SUBHUTI, THE RAJNEESH TIMES
Q: SORRY. DO YOU THINK THE FBI COULD HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR A SERIES OF COUNTER-ALLEGATIONS FROM SHEELA?


A:  They should bring Sheela here. Why they are waiting for? Because there is every possibility she may be killed by the other nineteen criminals. I am afraid of that, because I have seen today the interview she has given. She looks absolutely drugged. I am afraid that she may be killed. Because all the remaining ones will be free if she is finished. Then the main criminal is gone. The main source is finished. And these people are taking so long time which is not needed at all. She should be caught immediately with all those people. And to my sannyasins I would like to say, now no cooperation. Nobody goes to report anything unless my interview is taken with my condition, our cooperation is finished. Now they can go to hell! And as far as Sheela and her nineteen colleagues are concerned, we will make our own arrangements.
INTERVIEW WITH WALDEN KIRSCH, KGW TV, PORTLAND.
Q: GOOD EVENING. WE HAVE BEEN MEETING LIKE THIS FOR A WEEK NOW....


A: You are behaving like FBI! (Osho is laughing)
Q: EACH TIME THE STORIES THAT WE HEAR BECOME MORE AND MORE EXTRAVAGANT. RIGHT NOW AS WE SPEAK, THERE ARE A CERTAIN NUMBER OF SANNYASINS HERE IN THIS ROOM, WHO DON'T BELIEVE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.


A: What do you want to believe them? Who are the people?
Q: THEY'RE OUT THERE, SIR.


A: I will show. Raise the hands who believe in me and say three times, Yes!

AUDIENCE: Yes! Yes! Yes!

A: Now you ask your people to raise their hands and say no!
Q: I'LL LET YOU DO THAT.


A: Just come here.... Is anybody there who can stand for this man? Have pity on him! Just look behind.
Q: YOU SAY IN VARIOUS WAYS THAT YOU ASK YOUR SANNYASINS NOT TO BELIEVE YOU. YOU ASK THEM TO TRUST IN YOU BUT NOT TO BELIEVE YOU.


A: That's right!
Q: WHY SHOULD THEY BELIEVE THE FACTS WHICH YOU'VE BEEN LAYING OUT FOR THE PAST WEEK?


A: Because they know it as a fact.
Q: WHY SHOULD THEY BELIEVE YOU NOW?


A: They are not believing ME. They know the facticity of what I am saying...
Q: WHY SHOULD THEY BELIEVE YOUR VERSION AND NOT THE OTHER VERSION WHEN YOU TELL YOUR FOLLOWERS NOT TO BELIEVE THE WORDS YOU SAY?


A: They are not believing ME! They are believing the facticity of what I am saying. If it is a fact, you said that there are few people, you cannot make them stand. You cannot stand yourself rightly.
Q: HAVE YOU TOLD ANY LIES THE PAST WEEK? HAVE YOU TOLD ANY LIES AT ALL?


A: Never! Why should I say a lie? I have been trying to say the truth for thirty years and yet I have not been able to say it.
Q: IT SOUNDS AS THOUGH A SHOWDOWN IS INEVITABLE BETWEEN YOU AND THE CRIMINAL INVESTIGATORS HERE. AT THIS POINT YOU ARE TELLING YOUR FOLLOWERS NOT TO SPEAK TO ANYBODY UNLESS THEY SPEAK WITH YOU FIRST. IS THAT CORRECT?


A: I am simply saying that those people are trying a conspiracy to destroy the commune. And I will not allow anybody to destroy the commune.
Q: YOU SAID A MOMENT AGO THAT NONE OF YOUR SANNYASINS SHOULD GRANT ANY INTERVIEWS TO ANY INVESTIGATORS UNLESS THOSE INVESTIGATORS HAVE TAKEN YOUR INTERVIEW FIRST.


A: Certainly!
Q: AND UNTIL YOUR INTERVIEW HAPPENS YOU'RE ORDERING YOUR SANNYASINS TO SPEAK TO NONE OF THESE INVESTIGATORS.


A: Just let me repeat clearly to you.


They have been investigating up to today and we have been cooperating with them in every possible way. And they have been trying to exploit our cooperation. Rather than being thankful and grateful that we are cooperating, otherwise they have no way of finding the criminals and the crimes. It is only by our cooperation they can find the criminals and the crimes. They should be grateful.


They are not grateful, but they are being tricky. They have been trying behind the doors to bribe few people who have committed some small crime, that, "We will give you immunity." And you just tell what we want. This cannot be done. This is not cooperation. This is exploitation. And their desire is not against the criminals at all. Otherwise the first step, because we have given them all evidence, they have found all the bugging, they have taken all the wires, all the bugging, photographs, everything, we have delivered all machines. Now we think perhaps it was not a right step because these people perhaps may destroy all those evidences. If they want to protect the criminals and destroy the commune, from today there will be no cooperation. Now they will have to understand it that no conspiracy can be tolerated.


They have to take my interview before the national press, and only after that my sannyasins will cooperate. Otherwise not.
INTERVIEW WITH  SWAMI ANAND VIDEHA, FOR "LATIN-AMERICA COURIER", ITALY
Q: OSHO, WE HAD A WATERGATE ONE WEEK AGO, NOW WE HAVE A DOUBLE WATERGATE. WHO DO YOU SUSPECT IS BEHIND THE ATTORNEY GENERAL? ANY GUESS?


A: Attorney General is my guess. He is behind this Watergate. He is trying to protect the criminals and punishing the innocent. The idea of putting five hundred sannyasins behind the jail, into the jail, is out of a very criminal mind. And when we are supporting in every way, when we are withdrawing every hostility that Sheela and her group has created between our commune and Oregon... For example, we are changing City of Rajneesh back to the old name, Antelope. We are removing our police forces from there and we are ready to sell all the properties that belonged to the foundation to the people of Antelope, or anybody who wants to purchase, at the same price as we purchased them. We have improved them, renovated them, we have put money into them, they are already double of the cost and we will be giving them half of the price. And we want to move out of Antelope because we don't want to have anything to do with politics. It was Sheela's trip, it is finished with her going from here.


We want to be left alone here, we don't want any hostility, any antagonism with anybody. And we will give the proof of it by changing the name to Antelope, be removing our police force from there and we will remove our people as the properties are sold. Now, it is the time for all the Oregonians who were showing so much love for Antelope to purchase those properties. Now they will know who is their friend. It is one thing to talk and make great slogans that it is better to be dead than red, now it is time to show it, that you really intend. So they should purchase all the properties. We can vacate in a single day. Just they should purchase all the properties the way we have purchased from them.


Our people don't want to live there. Who wants to live in that third-rate one hundred year old houses? We have enough houses, fully air-conditioned, with all modern facilities. Our sannyasins want to come back home. Sheela was forcing them to go there. It was done all without my knowledge. Otherwise it would not have happened at all because I am absolutely apolitical.


I am not even against politics. Because to be against politics becomes politics. I am apolitical, neither for nor against, I simply want that the politics does not exist at all. That all the politicians are dead.
Q: YOU SAY THAT SHEELA STOLEN FORTY-THREE MILLION DOLLARS. THERE IS ANY REAL PROOF THAT HAS HAPPEN AND WHY THE EUROPEAN COMMUNE DID NOT TAKE DIRECT ACTION WITH INTERPOL IN THIS CASE?


A: Just now when I was coming here I have heard Sheela's husband is in the prison.
Q: YOU MEAN THE LAST HUSBAND?


A: And that too you have to understand. Sheela's first husband she killed. Sheela's second husband Jayananda is an American, before divorcing him she married a third husband who is Swiss just to be in Switzerland because from escaping from here where she was to go? So she married Deepo and then she became aware that this is a crime, she is committing bigamy. So she had to rush to a Himalayan small kingdom Nepal, because in Nepal, it is so poor, in small villages you can bribe any magistrate and get any certificate, any divorce certificate or anything you want. So she has brought from Nepal a divorce certificate back dated to avoid bigamy.


But the third husband is in the jail. He is in the jail because he also tried on Sheela's instructions to take the money out of the bank. It is not those forty-three million, it is another account of the Zurich commune. The money belongs to the Zurich commune. Deepo was one of the trustees and he has taken the money for his personal use, the whole money, and closed the account. I don't know exactly right now how much money he has taken, but from all over the world news is reaching. One woman from Geneva who had been my sannyasin long... Sheela came into my contact. She has informed that Sheela's whole business was selling drugs, particular heroin. And while she was going to Europe the excuse was visiting the communes, but the reality was heroin. She has been doing the business in selling gold also. I have called that sannyasins to come here, because she will be an eye witness, because Sheela and she were both very close friends. She knows every detail, that how much money she has got out of drugs, how much money out of gold, how much money she has taken out of the communes.


We will wait and see how capable American government, FBI and its other agencies are capable. If they cannot manage such a small thing, then forget about Soviet Union.
Q: BUT TILL NOW THERE IS NO DIRECT ACTION TOWARDS SHEELA FOR THE FORTY-THREE MILLION DOLLARS STOLEN IN EUROPE WITH INTERPOL THERE?


A: I have called the secretary of Sheela who is dying of cancer in California to come here and expose the whole thing clearly. That from where she has got those forty-three million dollars, in which bank they are, what is the account number... I am certain there is money. For one reason because Sheela has told me many times that, "I have a surprise for you."
And I always asked, "What surprise and when..."


Then one day she said, that "Now I cannot contain it any more, we have opened a bank account in Switzerland, in Sheela and Savita's name, but it is for me. In case you have to leave America, we will make a beautiful place and a small commune in Switzerland."


I asked her, that "If the bank account is for me, at least I am entitled to know how much money is there, what is the number of the bank account, and what is the name." That was never told to me. I have asked it almost half a dozen time.


Even the last day Savita left, I had told Hasya that, "Ask Savita about the bank account number." In front of me she promised that she will give the bank account number and every detail to Hasya, but she never gave, and escaped. So there is certainly a bank account, how much it is we will figure it out. They cannot cheat my sannyasins, they will repent badly.


But we will wait for this FBI capacity and if we see that these people are impotent, then we will do things on our own. We can catch hold of those people right now! We know everybody, where he is. And we wanted to inform these people but they don't want to have my interview.
Q: YOU SAY YOUR NAME HAS BEEN USED TO DO ALL THESE CRIMINAL ACTS. YOU THINK YOU CAN FILE, OR YOU WILL FILE SHEELA DIRECTLY FOR USING YOUR NAME FOR THIS?


A: Certainly. She has misused her power. She had my power of attorney. She was my secretary and I had given her all power and she has misused it for doing all kinds of crime. She will have to come back and she will have to ask apology to each of the sannyasin of the commune, because she has misbehaved with each of the sannyasins. She has harassed these people.


You will not believe that even the Mayor of Rajneeshpuram was punished by Sheela and the punishment was that "For few days you simply go on digging ditches. This is the punishment from Osho." I would like K.D. to come back, there is no need to hide in California. Just come back here and expose everything that you know and ask forgiveness from these people and we will fight for you. You expose to the government, to the court, about the whole gang and we will make every effort to get immunity for you. In fact the American constitution is in every way favorable, there is no problem in it. He will get immunity, he has not done any crime himself, he has been only in the group. His only crime is that he did not expose the group, but for which immunity is not difficult. So if he sees somewhere on the television screen, he should come back immediately without any fear. Nobody is going to punish him and he will never be told to dig ditches.


But that was one of the methods of the fascist group to punish people, to humiliate them, to force them to do things, otherwise they are not surrendering, they are not trusting, and all in my name. In fact, I can go to the court that my name has been misused and under my name's cover all these crimes have been committed. And I will protect my innocent sannyasins who have not done anything. Okay?
INTERVIEW WITH MA VIREN FOR "LOTO-PAYO" (LEUROPAYON?), ITALY.
Q: OSHO, YOU SAID FEW DAYS AGO THAT THE GOVERNMENT MAYBE WANTS THIS PART OF OREGON, THIS DESERT, FOR NUCLEAR EXPERIMENTS. WOULD THIS ENOUGH REASON FOR THEY TO CONSPIRATE AGAINST THE COMMUNE?


A: Any reason may be there, but this commune is going to remain here. Their reason for nuclear experiments is against man, against life, against everything that is valuable. It is not worth anything. If it was worth anything, we would have vacated this place immediately.
Q: BUT THIS IS TRUE IN ABSOLUTE, IT IS NOT TRUE AS FAR AS POWER IS CONCERNED. I MEAN THEY ALWAYS WIN!


A: It is not so easy! Just because we are five thousand sannyasins here does not mean that we don't have power. do you think only nuclear weapons have power? In fact, nuclear weapons have no power at all anymore. What power they have? Their power is that they can create another Hiroshima here? But that will destroy the whole America's image. Their democracy, their constitution, their values, and they will prove just hypocrites. They cannot do any harm to this commune because my people are around the earth and everywhere there will be protest against it if any harm is being done. Then no American embassy all over the world will be left intact! I know also how to deal with these idiots. Our people can also hijack American planes if worse comes to worse! Then no American agency in any country can function. I have enough sannyasins everywhere. So don't be worried about power. No need to be worried.
			

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